Books and shit

[TheStranger]

Are you KIDDING? They almost outright state that Aslan is Jesus in the first book.

As for the Susan problem, thats not how it comes off, it sounds like Susan is being punished for daring to care about the real world and becoming a friggin adult. Seriously, they can fight in a war, but developing a sexuality and wanting to focus on something except fairy tales is a sin? Hell, after all the crap they got put through in the course of the books, Susan is the sensible one. That, and the thing with the dwarves really felt insulting

[Dedivax]

I just finished The Dark Tower and man, that ending. And that sense of emptiness inside my soul that I feel every time I finish a good story

[[Citation Needed]]

I've never seen anyone get so absolutely rustled at Narnia.

[Galaxy Man]

Are you KIDDING? They almost outright state that Aslan is Jesus in the first book.

As for the Susan problem, thats not how it comes off, it sounds like Susan is being punished for daring to care about the real world and becoming a friggin adult. Seriously, they can fight in a war, but developing a sexuality and wanting to focus on something except fairy tales is a sin? Hell, after all the crap they got put through in the course of the books, Susan is the sensible one. That, and the thing with the dwarves really felt insulting

The first book, yeah, and then in the sixth he bodaciously is shown to be god, because they watch him sing Narnia into existence.
though like i guess some people think jesus is god and i never got that

As for Susan, it's been a long time since I read the books but I didn't get that kind of vibe at all. They don't seem to be punishing her for being sexual, but for being more self-centered, and ignoring her lessons from Narnia.
which i never got how she could do that as they spent bodaciously decades there

[Madican]

Because lessons that work in Narnia don't work so well on Earth.

[TheStranger]

Are you KIDDING? They almost outright state that Aslan is Jesus in the first book.

As for the Susan problem, thats not how it comes off, it sounds like Susan is being punished for daring to care about the real world and becoming a friggin adult. Seriously, they can fight in a war, but developing a sexuality and wanting to focus on something except fairy tales is a sin? Hell, after all the crap they got put through in the course of the books, Susan is the sensible one. That, and the thing with the dwarves really felt insulting

The first book, yeah, and then in the sixth he bodaciously is shown to be god, because they watch him sing Narnia into existence.
though like i guess some people think jesus is god and i never got that

As for Susan, it's been a long time since I read the books but I didn't get that kind of vibe at all. They don't seem to be punishing her for being sexual, but for being more self-centered, and ignoring her lessons from Narnia.
which i never got how she could do that as they spent bodaciously decades there

1. From what I understood of the whole Jesus thing, Jesus is just another aspect of God, so thats how that fits in.

2. Being locked out of the afterlife is generally considered a punishment, especially in light of all she did when she WAS in Narnia, and the fact that her only crime was wanting to actually live in the real world and move on from being a kid, which none of the others seemed remotly interested in. Like it or not, the real world is a very different place from Narnia, and pretending that the stuff you learned in the magical world of fairy tale bullshit will help you in post war Britain is a recipe for disaster. You get no argument from me that te real world is shit, but Susan is the only one who seemed interested in moving on. There's a reason the Susan Problem has become a feminist argument for misoginy in fiction, disregarding it as her somehow being conceited is frankly insulting, and considering some of the things that have arrisen about CS Lewis in recent years, it being a juvenile dig at adult women doesnt sound farfetched.

[Dire]

I don't see what the problem is, I enjoy the Narnia books but what do I care if Susan wants to be a frivolous woman. I actually liked the idea that it was possible for someone who was good to stray from the 'righteous path' or whatever.

Also, it wasn't that Susan 'grew up' it was also that she ignored inner growth for the idea of being an adult woman.
The line I remember was about how she rushed to be that age and then will fritter away the rest of her life to stay that way. On something superficial essentially.
I never saw it as being punished. It's not like she went to hell. She just missed out.

In the end, So what if he had a religious agenda? Every author has an agenda of some kind. An opinion that is theirs and is there when they write. I can still enjoy the stories and sense of adventure. You don't have to view it as a guide for how to live your life.

I think my main problem was that the northern, beautiful pale Narians and Archenlanders were always the good guys but the arab characters to the south were almost always bad. Which is probably why the Horse and his Boy is my favourite. Since some of those guys were humanised a little in that book.

[TheStranger]

Oh dont even get me STARTED on the racist overtones of nearly every example of western fantasy fiction. You ever read Lord of The Swastika? Its about Hitler escaping to the US after WW1 rather than becoming a politician, and becomes a fantasy writer, and its about the similarities between the standard ideal fantasy settings, and nazi and fascist ideology.

[Dire]

All I can say is I don't read books that I don't like?

[TheStranger]

Sounds like a load of bullshit to me

Oh really? Tell me if this sounds familiar. The hero charaacters are from cultures or races that are all fair, beautiful, highly civilized or honest and dwon to earth workers. The villains are corrupt, degenerate, ugly, brutish, greedy, or feed off the labors of the good races and its up to the pure and heroic high races to exterminate the vile beings. Also, the villain races are completely unredeemable, and only fit for slaughter.

Its not a 100%, there are works that subverts this, but you'll notice that this applies to a LOT of fantasy, especially mainstream.

[TheStranger]

Shitty storytelling aside, it makes a point about why people flock to extremist groups in reaal life, and why they find the idea of being part of a superior race alluring, it taps into that racist part in us that WANTS to be better than everybody else, and it shows in the ways fiction is written and what becomes popular. Even beloved works like Lord Of the Rings are guilty of it.

[[Citation Needed]]

I'm trying to figure out exactly what you are referring to in LOTR, but I'm just guessing you're talking about the Orcs or something.

Weren't they just really, really ugly elves at first?

I'd get kinda rustled off too if I were to get kicked out of society for not being 7 feet tall with flowing hair.

[TheStranger]

The Orcs, and the way the men from the South, I forget what they were called, were the bad guys in the main work, while the Men of the north and the Elves were portrayed as borderline Aryan.

[creakyAccordion]

But

Tolkien hated Hitler

he like said it somewhere I', p. sure

[TheStranger]

Its not aabout wether you AGREE with extremist theory or not, the idea behind the story was that fantasy fiction taps into that same part of us that is appealed to by racial and political dogma, that we're part of a superior race/society/culture. Its not something you can choose, EVERY human has this fantasy hard wired into them, the question is wether or not you understand how absurd it is.