Bioshock: Infinite

[Mete]

I like the shield, I've been using my infusion points on it even though investing in health instead would probably increase my total health more.

[BurntToShreds]

-The shield: it could have easily been replaced with "damage resistance" in the Infusion selection screen, or there could have been more ways to regain lost health altogether. Having a regenerating shield in a BioShock game is just ridiculous and yes, even more ridiculous than a flying city where people can shoot lightning from their hands and a dimension warping girl guarded by a giant bird monster.

Actually I rather think it's a good move. The shield regenerates, but your health doesn't. The shield really only protects you from a few hits, so you still have to be careful with your health. However, you don't have to fall into the terrible point in some older games where you have low health and can't continue because of it, but it's never too easy because of regenerating health.

I would much rather have the game force you play smart and think on your feet or else you'll die. I played through a hefty amount of fights using Vigors all over the place in combination with my guns and got out with little damage. The regenerating shield seems like it's there because they didn't want the CoD babies to get frustrated when their health didn't regenerate a few seconds after hiding behind a wall and were wondering why their guns didn't kill the enemy in three shots. I did my best to use cover only as points of sa before quickly pushing forward rather than as a place to retreat when my shield broke and health got low.

Irrational could have given players the option to take the shield rather than forcing you to take it. Giving players options is always good. Or, like I said, giving the player more options in regards to health recovery. They could have made some kind of gear that made first aid kits more common when searching bodies, more health regained from food. They did have Sheltered Life, which gave you temporary invincibility when you picked up health items, but I don't remember finding any gear that allowed you to recover more.

[KA-DOOM]

I really don't see the issue, it lets you vary how much you spec into it, it prevents you from getting stuck due to being unlucky with health kits and lets those who want to not explore absolutely everything power through. Or are you saying that it's more tactical to have 7~ medkits on hand if anything goes vaguely wrong instead of having to manage cover?

[BurntToShreds]

I never said anything like "it's more tactical to have 7~ medkits on hand if anything goes vaguely wrong instead of having to manage cover". What I'm saying is that I they could have come up with a health-preserving mechanic or mechanics better than a regenerating shield that you're forced to pick up if you want to continue the game. For instance:
-Gear that allows you to recover more health from food and drink.
-Gear that lets you recover some life when you melee execute an enemy.
-Gear that enables you to find more recovery items when you search corpses or containers.
-Gear that makes salt containers also give you health.
-Maybe even a vigor that uses all your salts to restore your health and is proportionate to how much salt you have?

As well, you never actually get stuck when you can just revive somewhere outside of battle (provided you have enough cheddar). Or, you could power through the game if you just get better at it.

I hate that it seems like every game nowadays has some kind of regeneration that protects you from dying rather than trusting that the player can learn not to do stupid shit that gives them low health in the first place.

[Galaxy Man]

but your health does get lower if you're hit with the rather pathetic shield down

if you're stuck in an area, with low life, without the shield you're fucked

with it you have the potential to get out of there

i'm not sure how this is a bad thing

[Gryewolf]

I still don't know why they don't just leave these lying around so you can regain your health and vigor.

[BurntToShreds]

It's a bad thing because Irrational, with all their creativity, couldn't come up with something better than, or go without altogether, the now-standard regenerating life/shield/something-that-makes-you-not-die mechanic that so many games these days have.

And if you're stuck in an area with low life, you could always think of a way to use the vigors you have to your advantage. A ton of the vigors make enemies much more vulnerable to damage; you can use those to soften enemies up and end the fight quickly. Then there's always Possession which you can use to mop up enemies or create a distraction that allows you to search around the area for recovery items. Or again, a person wouldn't be stuck with low health if they were better at the game.

I still like BioShock Infinite and enjoy playing it. Like I said earlier, I believe it's worthy of the BioShock name. However, I dislike that the Irrational has fallen into using gameplay features standard to other FPS games despite having proven that they can make games that don't have to rely on said features.

[Galaxy Man]

you keep bringing up that if people were "better" then the game wouldn't need the system

but that's like

the worst argument and sort of a fallacy

and none of the other ideas you had to "fix it" would work because in the scenario where you're stuck somewhere with people shooting at you, going and finding health or killing dudes for it isn't going to work because they have bullets and will shoot you which, spoiler, makes you die and that's the issue they're trying to avoid.

not to mention that since you can't carry health kits, having them increase your health more is semi-worthless, because once again in that situation where you have almost no health and can't get to a kit, the amount they increase doesn't matter at all.

and having salt containers heal you more than so slightly it hardly matters would break the game, and even make it easier without the shield.

you seem to be under the slight notion also that this is a bad thing because it's a new thing?
because it's not new
most shooters have a system of armor or shield outside of the main health, and while the regeneration isn't usually found in older ones, it's not a new concept at all

in fact, if we use wolfenstein for the benchmark, then FPS have been around for 21 years

if we use halo for the benchmark of when regenerating shields became a big thing, then regen shields have been around for 12 of those 21 years. which is more than the 9 years where games didn't have them*.

so it's not even a thing put in there for people who can't handle tough games, it's an industry standard for a reason, because it works and because it solves a lot of potential problems with a system that is easy to understand and implement.


*games probably had regen shields and health way before halo even so they still have the majority

[Mete]

Man, this game is all kinds of whack but straight-up ghosts were not something I expected

That part when you visit her grave, what the fuck

[BurntToShreds]

you seem to be under the slight notion also that this is a bad thing because it's a new thing?

I don't think all new game mechanics are bad. I think it's a bad thing that so many games use it rather than coming up with something different. You see, my primary argument is that it seems like game developers these days are too afraid to let the player die, or don't trust the player to get learn and get good enough at the game to where they don't need healing items/as many healing items. So, they add in these regeneration mechanics to make sure the player keeps feeling like they're a badass who gets stuff done even if they're constantly losing their health or shields and reaching the brink of death.

I'm not opposed to certain games having regenerating shields or health or whatever. There have been some good games using that mechanic. I merely find that way too many video games today use it when they could come up with something different and more suitable.

because it's not new. most shooters have a system of armor or shield outside of the main health, and while the regeneration isn't usually found in older ones, it's not a new concept at all

I recognize that armor/shields are not a new concept. It's the regeneration aspect that is new and is included in so many games, games that don't necessarily need it, that annoys me.

so it's not even a thing put in there for people who can't handle tough games, it's an industry standard for a reason, because it works and because it solves a lot of potential problems with a system that is easy to understand and implement.

What problems? Problems such as "I'm stuck behind this wall with bad guys shooting at me because I didn't learn basic gameplay concepts?"

In the scenario where you're stuck somewhere with people shooting at you, going and finding health or killing dudes for it isn't going to work because they have bullets and will shoot you which, spoiler, makes you die and that's the issue they're trying to avoid.

Or like I've said so many times before, the player could avoid the issue altogether and learn how to play the game well enough so that said scenario never arises. That's how people played FPS games back then; they learned from their experiences and mistakes.

[Tetrunes]

Doesn't make it any less boring and sewer levely.

It's more like a big hotel than a sewer.

Albeit a hotel with secret labs, child stealing, and drug addicts.

[Operation Awesome]

In the scenario where you're stuck somewhere with people shooting at you, going and finding health or killing dudes for it isn't going to work because they have bullets and will shoot you which, spoiler, makes you die and that's the issue they're trying to avoid.

Or like I've said so many times before, the player could avoid the issue altogether and learn how to play the game well enough so that said scenario never arises. That's how people played FPS games back then; they learned from their experiences and mistakes.

You do realize that they wanted Infinite to have a broader appeal, right?

Saying "If you can't stay alive long enough to enjoy the game, just get better you fucking scrub" is bodaciously the worst thing you could do to widen the player base.

[Galaxy Man]

In the scenario where you're stuck somewhere with people shooting at you, going and finding health or killing dudes for it isn't going to work because they have bullets and will shoot you which, spoiler, makes you die and that's the issue they're trying to avoid.

Or like I've said so many times before, the player could avoid the issue altogether and learn how to play the game well enough so that said scenario never arises. That's how people played FPS games back then; they learned from their experiences and mistakes.

You do realize that they wanted Infinite to have a broader appeal, right?

Saying "If you can't stay alive long enough to enjoy the game, just get better you fucking scrub" is bodaciously the worst thing you could do to widen the player base.

it is also, once again, the worst possible argument and is basically also a really shitty thing to say

[Mete]

Jesus, I got to fight her three times?

[Liraxus]

Jesus, I got to fight her three times?

Don't worry, thats your last fight,Enjoy silence from this point out.

They're gonna give ya a scare