AWKWARD ZOMBIE

Le Great Handsome Oppressor wrote:

Wordsmith wrote:Like I said, opinions

There are no opinions since we're talking about facts. The tier list isn't some arbitrary, quickly-made list - it's three years of work, of match-ups analysis, of tournament results, of time spent playing and dissecting the game. Ike's place can of course change over the time, as it did before, and maybe in a year or so he'll go up the list a bit, but with the data the community gathered up to this point, it's pretty clear that Ike isn't overpowered. He's not useless, he's not weak, but he's definitely not amongst the strongest characters in the game.

I can understand that you'd have trouble with Ike though, I myself have a lot of trouble fighting against Cockfighting Society Trainer who is also far from overpowered.

It doesnt matter if the tier list took years of work. Anything that involves "best" or "worst" is an opinion if it is derived from statistics. Best and worst are only facts if they themselves are derived from facts. It is a fact that Ike is middle tier, but its not a fact whether he is good or bad.

My best character is Sheik. But according to the tier list, the best character is Metaknight. That does not mean that everyone's best character is Metaknight.

Good, bad, easy, difficult, theyre all opinions

You guys made me put the Brawl disk into my Wii again. And I was sitting there playing wondering how the FUCK did I beat this game on Intense with Ness and Lucas? My skills are so rusty now, it makes me sad.

I am about to play Brawl too.

Anyone wanna online? Friend and message me on steam if yeh, I'm Nancymaker.

Zelda is my main here. Din's Fire, Farore's Wind, Nayru's Love, and plenty of powerful Smashes thrown in to mix. When my friend plays Snake this is the only character I can use that makes the matchup even.

Nancymaker wrote:Ike is EXCELLENT against anyone who doesn't dodge well. If you can dodge at all you can dodge Ike. He's real slow.

Yeah, Ike's a problem because he's easy for newbs to pick up and play fairly okay with but if you know how to dodge he stops becoming a problem (Then they start crying about how hard done by Ike is because of 'broken frames' or some shit I got tired of hearing).

If somebody starts bothering you with Ike you just need to switch over to Meta Knight and use his fast, low damage attacks to break all of Ike's slow, high damage attacks.

You have to work with Meta Knight to earn a win (it takes time to chip away at an opponents health with Meta's attacks, but if you play with items on (as Brawl intended) it's not so much of a problem.

Man, I really hate it when people turn items off - they don't realise how much they're disadvantaging themselves.


My mains, well it varied a bit; I guess for the most part I used Luigi, with Captain Falcon, Meta Knight and Lucario as reliable backups (I get rusty with Lucario really quickly if I haven't used him for a while though, and I only break out Meta Knight if someone is annoying me with cheap attacks). I'm also good with Wario and Falco.

I stopped using Samus almost completely because they slowed down her armoured form so much, and I could never really get the hang of ZSS anyway.

DoNotDelete wrote:Man, I really hate it when people turn items off - they don't realise how much they're disadvantaging themselves.

I hate when people take items off because it feels like they're saying 'Whoa whoa hey wait a minute, this game is just TOO MUCH FUN! We need to tone it down a bit!'
I love playing with people at the LANs, but only a select few like playing with items. I know WHY they don't like items, but it still makes me a little.

EDIT: My Brawl friend code is 1634-0298-1305 so let's see if we can get a game goin'!

I can understand turning some items off. Like fans.

"Dammit let me out of this clusterfuck! Shield roll! Shield roll! AGH!"

if I can get my wi-fi usb thing working I would like to play with someone now.
I think I have the driver and stuff saved on my computer in a folder, but I'm not sure how to reinstall it.

But then you get a hold of a fan and it's hilarious.

Granted I fall prey to this too, but if you don't take Brawl seriously you have loads of fun (in my opinion) whether you win or lose.

Nancymaker wrote:My Brawl friend code is 1634-0298-1305 so let's see if we can get a game goin'!

Items are there to make up for the characters' individual weaknesses - leveling the playing field.

If somebody asks to play with items turned off they're admitting that they can't win on a level playing field. I generally consider somebody to be a bad Brawl player when they ask to play with items off - because:

1. It suggests they value winning over having fun.
2. They're not actually a very good Brawl player - unable to adapt to the intended Brawl battle dynamic.
3. They are a sore loser (yeah, random Bob-ombs happen; Deal with it).

Basically, I know the game is going to stop being fun when somebody asks for item to be turned off, and I don't want to play with people like that, because they suck.


Also, Luigi's a demon with the fan:

*whapwhapwhapwhapwhapwhapwhapwhapwhapwhap-UPPERCUT*

This games winner is: LUIGI!


I have to do Pokemon Dream World but then I'll try to get on for a Brawl (gimme 20 minutes or so).

Okay, so I have all of the old USB connector files saved in a folder that contains all of my old program files. Where do I put them and what do I do to get them working again?

I'm sure there's info about this on the nintendo website. Sadly I can't remember the details offhand or I'd help.

Also I vote we turn of all items...

Except Pokeballs. (and final smash)

And play on Pokefloats.

And only choose to play as Pokemon.

Gimmick matches are the best

You're not making any sense at all, Wordsmith.

Just because you can't use Metaknight as well as you could use another character doesn't mean Metaknight isn't the strongest character in the game. He is. You're just more proficient with another character. You find it easier to use. You know it better.
Metaknight is still stronger. He has, overall, better tools. He can deal with the whole cast. He has answers for everything. His weaknesses are meaningless compared to his strengths.

Wordsmith wrote:Best and worst are only facts if they themselves are derived from facts. It is a fact that Ike is middle tier, but its not a fact whether he is good or bad.

Yes it is. It's simple, really - a character alone doesn't matter. What matters is how he interacts with the rest of the cast. That's what makes a character good or bad: how he measures to the other characters.
Ike has bad match-ups up the wazoo! He doesn't have the advantage against many characters, and even then it's not by a lot. And even then, it's against overall poorly-ranked characters! An advantageous match-up against Ganondorf, Zelda or Falcon is nothing to brag about.
However, and that's why Ike's ranking isn't low, his bad match-ups aren't too bad. Apart from, say, Metaknight and Marth, his match-ups are hard but still fair-ish, thanks to his weight making him hard to eject directly, deal good damage and eject his opponents pretty efficient ways. He also has a good jab and nice range on most moves.
Ike's weaknesses are what screws him. He's very slow, and easily punishable, meaning you have to be extremely careful. It limits your offensive options greatly. Ike is also large, meaning he's easy to combo, his throws are subpar, his recovery is predictable and punishable and he's easy to camp and run away from, and to keep away from the edge of the stage after ejecting him.
Ike's gameplay is just too reliant on zoning and punishing the opponents errors, and even that doesn't do much at all. His range is nice, and his aerials can be scary, but what good are these moves when they're so slow? You can read them and shield them, and then punish them. Ike has almost no mix-ups, he needs to do the same thing over and over (front air attack, back air attack, hope for a jab to connect, punish rolls with a front smash) to try and do damage or lead to a kill, and these things are expectable, easy to bait, easy to punish. He can survive some punishment though, and because most characters need to hit him a lot to kill him, it gives him some chances to hit them back, but that's still not much.

Wordsmith wrote:Good, bad, easy, difficult, theyre all opinions

Easy and difficulte, yes ; good and bad, no, not in a fighting game.

I found a copy of the installation stuff on the Nintendo website. Fingers crossed.

I take off the items when i want to learn to use a character, say, Lucario. Kind of forcing myself to use him instead of running around until a hammer appears.
I also take them off when i play with stamina instead of lives.

But i never saw them as a bad thing :V