The Current Events Thread

[Ersatz]

He didnt cheat, he didnt lie more than anyone else, and he won.

On the contrary:
www.politifact.com/personalities/donald-trump/
www.politifact.com/personalities/hillary-clinton/

(why does [url] not work anymore?)

A candidate winning does not automagically make their views acceptable. Yes, Trump was legitimately elected. No, that does not mean people can't protest his policies (until he bans protests anyway).

IN OTHER NEWS:

WASHINGTON — By the time Richard B. Spencer, the leading ideologue of the alt-right movement and the final speaker of the night, rose to address a gathering of his followers on Saturday, the crowd was restless.

In 11 hours of speeches and panel discussions in a federal building named after Ronald Reagan a few blocks from the White House, a succession of speakers had laid out a harsh vision for the future, but had denounced violence and said that Hispanic citizens and black Americans had nothing to fear. Earlier in the day, Mr. Spencer himself had urged the group to start acting less like an underground organization and more like the establishment.

But now his tone changed as he began to tell the audience of more than 200 people, mostly young men, what they had been waiting to hear. He railed against Jews and, with a smile, quoted Nazi propaganda in the original German. America, he said, belonged to white people, whom he called the “children of the sun,” a race of conquerors and creators who had been marginalized but now, in the era of President-elect Donald J. Trump, were “awakening to their own identity.

As he finished, several audience members had their arms outstretched in a Nazi salute. When Mr. Spencer, or perhaps another person standing near him at the front of the room — it was not clear who — shouted, “Heil the people! Heil victory,” the room shouted it back.

but yea both candidates were equally bad for the country and the world no really

[Riku]

Thats the thing, I CANT argue against him. He followed the rules to a T, and thus, I have nothing left to add. You mihgt not care, but this matters to me. There are rules you follow, and if you win by those rules, you win fair. He WON FAIR AND SQUARE. Yes, he won by electoral college vote, but within the system, he won by the rules. Thats how it works. If you win by the rules, you won correctly. Nothing else matters! The facts dont matter, opinion doesnt matter, ideals dont matter, BECAUSE HE WON.

Okay, I dont think I've explained this fullu before, but I'm fucking autistic. I HAVE to follow the rules for my own peace of mind. And Trump won by following the rules, so then, nothing else matters. I HAVE to abandon everything else because otherwise I'll lose my fucking mind! Morals dont matter, ideals dont matter, facts dont matter, because the votes all line up for this guy. Its all completely pointless. I KNOW its the wrong choice by every goddamn number imaginable, but my fucking brain forces me to accept it, BECAUSE HE WON. He didnt cheat, he didnt lie more than anyone else, and he won. End of story.

None of you get it. THERE ARE GODDAMN NUMBERS AND YOU WONT FOLLOW THEM!!!

I must have missed the part where anyone was arguing about whether or not he followed the rules. You can wholeheartedly believe he's an asshole that should not be trusted with power, due to prejudice and near-sociopathic lack of empathy, but still know that he won according to the rules of the system. I don't LIKE it, but I fully acknowledge that he was elected by at least one measure. So now the course of action is to keep an eye on him and attempt to avoid or undo any poor decisions he or his atrocious cabinet members will try to make.

I don't see how a need to adhere to an established system is cause for this outburst. You are throwing a tantrum like a child, due to one forum member's vote, and a couple of other people saying "but that makes him a dick..." I get that you mentioned being autistic, which will present emotional difficulties that I can't understand without knowing you in person, but you are clearly also someone with an established sense of reason. I wasn't knocking your pessimistic view on its own, it's that you are calling everyone an idiot for thinking otherwise. You are acting as if there is no one in the world who agrees with you. Recall that the portion of the electoral college he won by is not indicative of an actual population majority. Yes, things might go poorly for a while, but that's why we correct mistakes to avoid making them again.


Also, remember that a lot of people weren't voting for Trump BECAUSE he was a bigot and a fuckwit, but DESPITE that. Because to them and their estimations of the future, he (at the time) seemed like a better alternative than Hillary (which doesn't mean they actually liked him). Up until he started appointing god-awful people for his cabinet, there was actually a small chance that he would tone down the act and be a decent policy maker, even if he was a terrible person. There were a few reasons to vote for him that had nothing to do with prejudice of any kind (largely to do with his plans for what to do with the economy/infrastructure within the U.S.) It's just that for a lot of people with a sense of empathy and caution in foreign relations, the potential negatives outweighed those reasons.

[Fordicon98]

So in Not-America news, it was recently revealed that the South Korea presidency has been secretly run by a psychic lady who helped the President contact her dead mother.

I'm honestly at a loss for words for this whole year. Like Jesus Christ, what is even happening anymore?

[Wry Bread]

Maybe start protesting against the electoral college before you lose the election next time. System's been around quite a while as far as I understand.

You mean like Trump throwing a tantrum when Obama won by nearly 5 million votes in 2012, saying that he only won because the Electoral College cheated to help him, and railed about how much he hated the EC before the recent election, but on November 15th reversed his stance to say that it's actually genius and if you disagree then fuck you? (It's totally not because he's losing the popular vote! No! He's always loved the system.)



Syo, not everybody with concerns is, like, whiner pissbaby tumblrinas. If you look closely, many of us are gay, trans or non-christian. We have more reason than most to be alarmed and concerned by current social trends, and we're not alone in our concern. Actual historians and political analysts have repeatedly expressed concern about the rapidly multiplying similarities between Trump's politics and behavior, the responses of his supporters, and the changing social climate, and the rise of historical fascist powers.

I personally spent my childhood being violently physically assaulted by people for being Jewish; the town I grew up in had a heavy neo-Nazi and extremist Christian population. Teachers would falsify my grades or take the entire class on field trips except for me, they would take me aside in private and hit me, they would tell me if I tattled bad things would happen and my dad couldn't be a teacher in their town anymore. When I went to the pool, the teen lifeguards would force me off the high dive or hold me underwater until I started to drown. Once they made me let them cover me with tanning oil on a hot day and when I finally got home, my skin was purple and cracking in places. I had to walk by myself because no one in town would let mom work there so she was constantly gone working an hour away, and they only tolerated dad because he had a master's degree and they needed a teacher. A local church convinced my only friend to lure me inside and they did bad things to me in there, including trying to forcibly baptise me. On my sixth birthday, a gang of angry teens followed my dad home from school with the intent to beat him for being a Jew, then discovered he had a little girl they could hurt instead. They asked me outside to play, and when they got me alone, they dragged me into an alley and took turns beating me until my Mom came and chased them away.

These things were parts of everyday life for me, and none of them ever got in trouble. The few times we tried, it backfired and the people who were at risk of being penalized started hurting me more, so I stopped telling my parents what was happening to me. The same kinds of things happened to my dad when he was a kid. My mother has already been verbally abused and threatened since the election and people have started side-eyeing my dad, too.

Blah, blah, blah. The point of all of this is that it didn't take much for people to feel allowed to do that stuff to us before, and it won't take much for them to feel allowed to do it again. The people feeling empowered by the new trends they see going on might not start with us this time, but when you've been in that position, where someone is allowed to hurt you because no one is inclined to help, you cannot, you cannot tolerate it happening to others. And we won't.

It doesn't matter if the majority wouldn't go out of their way to hurt us if the majority also won't go out of their way to help us.

Although yes, we are angry that, yet again, the EC has put a Republican in office despite them losing the popular vote, most of the protests going on around the country are protests against specific ideologies. When you say "let's see what happens" and roll over for the sake of "getting along"-- i.e. not being the first ones on the shortlist for abuse-- you give bigots permission.

But at this point, nobody is going to believe us unless things jump the rails all at once. And even if they do, I'm absolutely sure that someone is going to blame it on Obama, or black people, or Muslims, or whoever the target du jour is.

Just keep in mind the people you threw under the bus to get there, when the time comes.

[Syobon]

You mean like Trump throwing a tantrum when Obama won by nearly 5 million votes in 2012

No I mean how this system was known widely in advance and how people are only protesting against after their candidate lost. It's too late now. Even if you do manage to change the system for the better (which I naively hope happens, but putting it to solely to the popular vote would not be an improvement, your entire system is completely fucked to the core) it's not going to change the results of the election. Of course Trump isn't going to speak out against the system that won him the election, he's not a complete idiot.


I feel like I need to repeat that I do not support Trump. I'm not pop flyin' that he won the election. I didn't like Clinton but I would've preferred her over Trump. I very much understand people being upset about Trump becoming president. But. If people truly want to change this world for the better, they need to grow up and be realistic. Trump is going to be president for the next 4 years. No amount of protesting is going to change that. Stop protesting against his presidency because you're only painting yourself as unruly rioters with no clear direction. Protest his policies, organize yourself, make sure you have a clear and realistic message. Stop portraying every one who disagrees with you as bigots because you will win no support for your cause, only further animosity.

This is very much aimed against the Democrats, who should look towards their own internal problems as to why they managed to lose against a rambling baboon instead of blaming everything under the sun rather than their own incompetence.

[Wry Bread]

Okay. That's reasonable. I mean, I really hate having to cater to respectability politics, but I know that a lot of what you're saying is true.

I just can't go through what happened to me again. I can't. And I can't let it happen to anybody else. I know what it feels like to be everybody's punching bag, and have the people who are supposed to protect you shrug and look away or even join in. That feeling of powerlessness, that feeling of helplessness, that feeling of being less than human, less than animal, does permanent damage to a person. There's nothing like it. Some people come out of those experiences ready to lash out and spread some of the hurt they were forced to endure, because the lesson they learned from that experience was that the cruel can have whatever they want. Others come out of it like I did, agonizingly sensitive to other people and unable to cope with anything until they get it under control, and instantly inflamed by seeing other people go through what we did. My family finally moved away from that town when I was 12, to somewhere safer for us, but for years I couldn't watch the news and had to censor content for my own wellbeing, because every time I saw some story about someone going through something like I did, I relived it again in their shoes. I guess that if I spoke to someone about it now I would probably have been diagnosed with PTSD of some sort.

Sorry I lashed out at you. I know that your points are sound and that this is just how things are for now. I know that in many ways the mainstream Democratic party is a massive failure. I just don't know what to do about it, and when I look around, I see so few people who care about what this whole thing is doing to people like me and my family or friends. It's a slap in the face. Even if Trump's victory was due in large part to the neglected blue collar and working class turning to him out of anger and frustration, his victory still loudly proclaims that we live in a country where this many people are perfectly okay with electing someone who says the things he says and does the things he does, and that many of them even admire it, and the message is that we are even less safe than we thought we were.

[Great Eyewarp]

If people truly want to change this world for the better, they need to grow up and be realistic. Trump is going to be president for the next 4 years. No amount of protesting is going to change that. Stop protesting against his presidency because you're only painting yourself as unruly rioters with no clear direction. Protest his policies, organize yourself, make sure you have a clear and realistic message. Stop portraying every one who disagrees with you as bigots because you will win no support for your cause, only further animosity.

First off, people are protesting his policies, not just the fact that he won. They're showing that his ideas and his choices are unacceptable, and that they will never accept someone like him as their leader. Also, I can't help but take umbrage at how you say that they're "painting [themselves] as unruly rioters." While I of course condemn the actions of the violent ones, you are aware that the violent protesters aren't representative of everyone who protests Trump and his policies, right? What about the many people who protest him peacefully? Is it their fault that the media seems obsessed with covering the violent protests while ignoring the peaceful ones? Perhaps instead of telling people to stop protesting because that might portray them in a certain light, you should see what you can do to help people see that Trump's protesters aren't all violent looters.

Second, telling people to stop calling Trump supporters bigots is a pointless thing to say. Even if they aren't bigots, their actions have helped bigots. By voting for him, Trump's supporters displayed a near-sociopathic lack of empathy towards people of color, women, LGBT+ people, foreigners, and non-Christians, even if they themselves aren't consciously bigoted against any of those people. Yes, being confrontational towards them just makes them more defensive, but as I've said before, they just don't listen to you when you try to talk to them respectfully. Those who aren't consciously bigoted against those groups are too deeply seated in their own willful ignorance for a gentle approach to be effective. Furthermore, they have done all those groups I mentioned a tremendous disservice by voting for Trump, and they need to be made to understand how horrible their actions were. Or do you have some idea of a way to approach these people that will magically make them see the error of their ways without pissing them off or making them see you as weak?

[Syobon]

you are aware that the violent protesters aren't representative of everyone who protests Trump and his policies, right? What about the many people who protest him peacefully? Is it their fault that the media seems obsessed with covering the violent protests while ignoring the peaceful ones?

Of course. That's precisely what I'm saying. The violent, but also the non-violent extremist protesters (that demand Trump step down as president-elect) ruin the efforts of the sensible ones. I did not mean to imply there were no sensible protesters, to be clear.

Is it their fault that the media seems obsessed with covering the violent protests while ignoring the peaceful ones? Perhaps instead of telling people to stop protesting because that might portray them in a certain light, you should see what you can do to help people see that Trump's protesters aren't all violent looters.

And what could I possibly do to accomplish that? The media is always going to focus on the violent and the extreme, because that's all people care about. Nothing you or I do will change that. And I'd like to point out that I did not ask for people to stop protesting, I asked for people to start protesting in a constructive manner.


On your second point, I don't think we will see eye-to-eye on this matter. I understand that you're disillusioned, but I have to keep believing logic, reason and level-headedness will eventually prevail for my own sanity.

[Great Eyewarp]

you are aware that the violent protesters aren't representative of everyone who protests Trump and his policies, right? What about the many people who protest him peacefully? Is it their fault that the media seems obsessed with covering the violent protests while ignoring the peaceful ones?

Of course. That's precisely what I'm saying. The violent, but also the non-violent extremist protesters (that demand Trump step down as president-elect) ruin the efforts of the sensible ones. I did not mean to imply there were no sensible protesters, to be clear.

Gotcha. Thanks for clearing that up! Although I should mention that many of these people don't expect him to willingly step down (like that would ever happen). However, they know that there are several states (including Pennsylvania) that don't require their electors to vote the same way as the state. They hope that their protests will catch the attention of these electors and convince them to vote in accordance with the popular vote instead of the state vote on December 19th. I personally don't see it happening, but still.

Is it their fault that the media seems obsessed with covering the violent protests while ignoring the peaceful ones? Perhaps instead of telling people to stop protesting because that might portray them in a certain light, you should see what you can do to help people see that Trump's protesters aren't all violent looters.

And what could I possibly do to accomplish that? The media is always going to focus on the violent and the extreme, because that's all people care about. Nothing you or I do will change that.

I'm not suggesting that you try to completely change people's interests or how the media covers news; that's impossible. I meant try thinking of what you can do on a smaller scale to fight ignorance. For instance, if you see someone who does think that Trump's violent protesters represent all of his protesters and people should stop protesting entirely, you could try to inform them of how most of the protests are peaceful and talk about the specific policies they're protesting (which, let's be honest, are pretty much all of his policies). I can't guarantee that they'll listen; like I said, a lot of Trump's supporters and apologists are too mule-headed to consider that they might be wrong. But there's a chance that you could help someone gain some perspective, and that's something we desperately need these days.

And I'd like to point out that I did not ask for people to stop protesting, I asked for people to start protesting in a constructive manner.

When I said "instead of telling people to stop protesting," I was referring to this:

Stop protesting against his presidency because you're only painting yourself as unruly rioters with no clear direction.

I kinda screwed up by forgetting about the next line. Sorry 'bout that.

[Brekkjern]

Or do you have some idea of a way to approach these people that will magically make them see the error of their ways without pissing them off or making them see you as weak?

If we assume what you say is true, that it's impossible to have a level headed argument with them and shouting at them and calling them bigots is actually deteriorating the situation, that one should try something else? I mean, none of those two options are helping and one is actively making your position worse. Have you tried not engaging with them at all? By attacking their position like you do now you only legitimise it, making them further entrenched.

Ignoring them might not help in the absolute short term, but it might win in the longer term. You should rather focus on the ones that haven't taken a "side" in the debate. Try to win them over with persuasion and grace. At some point your demography will grow and theirs will suffer as recruitment falters.

Sure, keep on demonstrating against the actual policies, but attacking the voter base has never solved a problem.

[Great Eyewarp]

I agree that we should try to respectfully engage those who haven't taken sides. While I don't see how you couldn't have taken a side at this point unless you're living under a rock, there's still hope for them. But I wasn't talking about them. Ignoring the people who do support Trump isn't going to make them or their views go away.

[Brekkjern]

Ignoring the people who do support Trump isn't going to make them or their views go away.

You're welcome to continue doing what you do, but it's obviously not working. Protesting policy changes is several magnitudes more efficient than trying to protest away people or their opinions.

[Noffletoff]

So Reddit CEO Spez, just admitted to editing peoples reddit posts, without leaving any kind of indication that those posts have been edited. This is kind of a huge deal.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama ... ting_t_ds/

[Syobon]

Yeah, I saw that. Further discrediting the already shaky professionalism of the Reddit administration. He should probably step down if they want to even try to regain the trust of the userbase.

[Noffletoff]

I always thought they would just ban /r/the_donald, but this is just as interesting!