Taboo Topics (Heavily moderated)

Tall-Hatted Yanimae · Post by **Tall-Hatted Yanimae** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:16 pm

Same. Animals are amazing and I love them, but I would never switch places with one, or change my appearance to look more like one.

I probably would try not to be bothered by someone who would do that or do that cybernetic thing, but it feels unnatural to me. Sorta feels the same as getting plastic surgery.

Plasma · Post by **Plasma** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:18 pm

DoNotDelete wrote:Greed and selfishness are built into the human genome.
Until these primary objectives change significantly, the human race is destined to destroy itself.

So... despite that greed and selfishness have always been a trait in animalkind, and that the human population has been constantly growing, you are apparently convinced that those traits are going to cause mass extinction.
In fact, there's been a lot of debates that greed and selfishness are necessary for the survival of a species! It... gets very long winded, but the points make sense.

Karilyn wrote:We are little more than bald monkeys. We still act like monkeys, and our motivations in life are largely the same motivations as other monkeys.

And, y'know, we posess incredible amounts of knowledge, developed several complex language systems, went through thousands of years of technological breakthroughs, and have massive constructions populating the entire planet. Yeah. All monkey traits.

DoNotDelete · Post by **DoNotDelete** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:18 pm

Tall-Hatted Yanimae wrote:I always get upset when I hear someone say "I hate being a human". I guess I just have a big sense of pride with humanity and instead of wishing I was something else, I'm extremely pop flyin' with what I am now.

When I think about what human beings have accomplished I have mixed feelings of awe and disgust, because a lot those accomplishments have been built upon the suffering of other humans, as well as having massive ecological and environmental costs.

Tall-Hatted Yanimae wrote:Our minds are like Universes. We haven't even begun to fully understand our own brains and that amazes me we have minds that advanced.

The problem is, my imagination is the reason I can envision a better body for myself - it's both a gift and a curse.

In the absence of a life form with comparable abilities and intelligence, I can't complain about being human, but I don't like the fact I am human, and I don't particularly like other human beings very much...

...at least until I get to know some of them on a personal level.

Plasma wrote:
DoNotDelete wrote:Greed and selfishness are built into the human genome.

Until these primary objectives change significantly, the human race is destined to destroy itself.
So... despite that greed and selfishness have always been a trait in animalkind, and that the human population has been constantly growing, you are apparently convinced that those traits are going to cause mass extinction.
In fact, there's been a lot of debates that greed and selfishness are necessary for the survival of a species! It... gets very long winded, but the points make sense.

The problem is, that survival seems to come at the expense of everyone and everything else.

One Earth, limited resources, increasing human population, countless levels of extinction.

Let's all look to the future and take pride in our race.

I'm going to put my hatred and psychoses back in the box now, so there's nothing to see here citizens, get on with your lives.

Ryushusupercat · Post by **Ryushusupercat** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:21 pm

DoNotDelete wrote:
Tall-Hatted Yanimae wrote:I always get upset when I hear someone say "I hate being a human". I guess I just have a big sense of pride with humanity and instead of wishing I was something else, I'm extremely pop flyin' with what I am now.

When I think about what human beings have accomplished I have mixed feelings of awe and disgust, because a lot those accomplishments have been built upon the suffering of other humans, as well as having massive ecological and environmental costs.

A lot of human accomplishments have been built upon the suffering of animals, too. Think vivisection.

Karilyn · Post by **Karilyn** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:23 pm

DoNotDelete wrote:Sweet, but ultimately idealistic rant

Eh, you give the animal kingdom too much credit. They aren't any better than humans really. We just learned how to take the sharp pointy stick, and make it out of metal instead of a wood.

Some species are a lot worse than humans. Like ants. Jeeze, they make humans look like a down right friendly peaceful bunch by comparison.

...

The entire world revolves around the idea of killing other things in order to consume them.

The closest thing to a species with a nonviolent existence are plants, which typically survive through photosynthesis. But even plants wage warfare with each other, fighting to block out each other's light and stifle other species growth, so that they can have all the sunlight to themselves.

Plasma wrote:And, y'know, we posess incredible amounts of knowledge, developed several complex language systems, went through thousands of years of technological breakthroughs, and have massive constructions populating the entire planet. Yeah. All monkey traits.

And what motivates us to do these things?

Largely our desire for shiny things.

Tall-Hatted Yanimae · Post by **Tall-Hatted Yanimae** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:26 pm

Plasma wrote: In fact, there's been a lot of debates that greed and selfishness are necessary for the survival of a species! It... gets very long winded, but the points make sense.

I've heard this before. While it's definitely not a virtue to have, there are times when being a bit Selfish has to come into play to help you out.
Greed, I'm not so sure about. I feel we can live without that.

And Ryu, DND, there are humans who have done terrible things like that, but there are also humans that want to stop that. Instead of wishing to become something completely different than humans, maybe you can be one of those humans and help to make being a human a better experience.
Actually wishing and wanting to be something else is sorta different than just having daydreams and imagining about being something else.

Avengifier · Post by **Avengifier** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:28 pm

Karilyn wrote:
DoNotDelete wrote:Sweet, but ultimately idealistic rant
The entire world revolves around the idea of killing other things in order to consume them.

Agreed on these points. Conflict is the base of life. Evolution, invention, and everything else stems from competition. It's possible to cut down and try to help animals and environment, but in order to live you have to take from something else.

Tall-Hatted Yanimae · Post by **Tall-Hatted Yanimae** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:31 pm

True. It doesn't mean we have to take too much than is needed.
Look for example on the Native Americans, they only took as much as is needed and never wasted a thing. They lived happily with the animals and nature without having to destroy everything to live.

AND THEN THE PILGRIMS CAME.
dun Dun DUN

Ryushusupercat · Post by **Ryushusupercat** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:34 pm

Tall-Hatted Yanimae wrote:
Plasma wrote: In fact, there's been a lot of debates that greed and selfishness are necessary for the survival of a species! It... gets very long winded, but the points make sense.
I've heard this before. While it's definitely not a virtue to have, there are times when being a bit Selfish has to come into play to help you out.
Greed, I'm not so sure about. I feel we can live without that.

And Ryu, DND, there are humans who have done terrible things like that, but there are also humans that want to stop that. Instead of wishing to become something completely different than humans, maybe you can be one of those humans and help to make being a human a better experience.
Actually wishing and wanting to be something else is sorta different than just having daydreams and imagining about being something else.

I love the humans who want to stop animal abuse. <3

I want to build a robot to replace animals in vivisection! No more cutting up innocent animals! (life-saving surgery is still good.)

Karilyn · Post by **Karilyn** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:34 pm

Avengifier wrote:
Karilyn wrote:
DoNotDelete wrote:Sweet, but ultimately idealistic rant
The entire world revolves around the idea of killing other things in order to consume them.
Agreed on these points. Conflict is the base of life. Evolution, invention, and everything else stems from competition. It's possible to cut down and try to help animals and environment, but in order to live you have to take from something else.

This goes a bit back to my whole argument that if there were a god(s), that they would have been undoubtably evil and malicious.

They created a nonviolent system of continued life (photosynthesis), but decided that consumption would be the system given to majority of species. So that the only way to continue your own life, is by inflicting pain on other species.

Even if there was a god, which there isn't, it would be foolish to worship a being so utterly and irredeemably evil.

Avengifier · Post by **Avengifier** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:38 pm

Tall-Hatted Yanimae wrote:True. It doesn't mean we have to take too much than is needed.
Look for example on the Native Americans, they only took as much as is needed and never wasted a thing. They lived happily with the animals and nature without having to destroy everything to live.

AND THEN THE PILGRIMS CAME.

Native American society was so beautiful, to me. Living with nature, being so far ahead of their time in women's rights and having communal living and sharing everything. It's really upsetting to think that America was so cruel and deceitful to them. That was pretty much an ideal society, completely wiped out.

Unbalanced · Post by **Unbalanced** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:40 pm

Karilyn wrote:
Avengifier wrote:
Karilyn wrote:The entire world revolves around the idea of killing other things in order to consume them.
Agreed on these points. Conflict is the base of life. Evolution, invention, and everything else stems from competition. It's possible to cut down and try to help animals and environment, but in order to live you have to take from something else.
Even if there was a god, which there isn't, it would be foolish to worship a being so utterly and irredeemably evil.

Well hey, any god that gave me life is fine by me. Life is never complete without some tragedy to let you appreciate the good times.

Karilyn · Post by **Karilyn** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:42 pm

Avengifier wrote:
Tall-Hatted Yanimae wrote:True. It doesn't mean we have to take too much than is needed.
Look for example on the Native Americans, they only took as much as is needed and never wasted a thing. They lived happily with the animals and nature without having to destroy everything to live.

AND THEN THE PILGRIMS CAME.
Native American society was so beautiful, to me. Living with nature, being so far ahead of their time in women's rights and having communal living and sharing everything. It's really upsetting to think that America was so cruel and deceitful to them. That was pretty much an ideal society, completely wiped out.

Not to mention they had kick booty names. It was like, the forum usernames of ancient times.

RunsWithBuffalos

SwiftRiver

SilverWolf

PwnsNoobsWithBowAndArrow

Tall-Hatted Yanimae · Post by **Tall-Hatted Yanimae** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:42 pm

It's the way it works and it really would be the only way it could work.

It's how the strongest are weened out from the weakest and the strong ones will breed to create more strong ones and survive.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

But humans can kill animals for food and other necessities in humane ways. Ways that won't hurt them and they go peacefully.
Some animals are very brutal to each other, but I feel that's what makes humans so special. They can choose NOT to do these things just to survive and can look for other means of surviving without having to hurt one another. Yet we still evolve and advance.
And we can do that. We have the conscious, the brain power and the will. If you're religious, you could believe that because of our spirituality, we're self-aware, we think not about ourselves, but each other and how each life is as precious as ours, human or animal and to think outside of the instincts our primal ancestors have passed down to us.

Native Americans are awesome. I hope we one day live like them again, but with internet still and technology. : D
blah blah blah I wish I was this enthusiastic about writing essays as much as I was writing this.

DoNotDelete · Post by **DoNotDelete** » Thu Aug 27, 2009 4:42 pm

Avengifier wrote:
Karilyn wrote:
DoNotDelete wrote:Sweet, but ultimately idealistic rant
The entire world revolves around the idea of killing other things in order to consume them.
Agreed on these points. Conflict is the base of life. Evolution, invention, and everything else stems from competition. It's possible to cut down and try to help animals and environment, but in order to live you have to take from something else.

Just because I've been born into a reality built on those constraints doesn't mean I have to like it.

Also, most of you have got the wrong tack on the wanting to be an animal bit, I was talking about going beyond that - beyond human, animal and machine.

Also, animals are bastards to each other because they operate on instincts they can't necessarily override. Human beings can think beyond instincts and override them (choose to do something different)...

...so if a human kills something for fun it really is an evil act, because they could choose to do something different. An animal can't really be evil, because it may not necessarily have the level of understanding required to make the correct choice.

So, yeah, only human beings can be evil or good.

...

I don't even know how I got there with that comment.