AWKWARD ZOMBIE

The point being that small children should not be brought into affairs of which they might potentially have no concept of? Yeah, I can see that going too far on either faction.

I'd say let the parents do what they want. If they want to take the kids with them, what the hell. Just don't hold it against the kid, that's stupid and it's not like they even fully comprehend the situation and all the points.

I think this group was having their kid hold the sign as a sort of "Take that!" to the Westboros that do the same thing to their kids. I mean, it sucks to make an example out of your own child, but I get it.

I disagree, StarSeed. Children should be left out of the matters until they fully comprehend the slogans they're bearing. Parents who do this on either faction are simply setting their kids up for either a) rebellion in pre/teenage years or b) creating narrow-minded drones that are too stubborn to find middle ground. Of course, there are is always the C) generation, but only after they are old enough to comprehend what is going on in the society around them. I'm not really thinking of a specific age, mind you, just an age of accountability, if you will.

But what about parents taking their children to churches?

Good point in the argument, Karilyn.

What I was trying to say is that a parent giving a sign to a kid saying F.U. so-and-so, while funny, is also a form of child exploitation, as well as giving said kids obviously offensive shirts. If you flaunt your kids as some kind of object to make a point, then the parenting is in question. (i.e. bringing your little boy to an anti-abortion rally to flaunt him off to the people getting their procedure done, shaking him in the air yelling "You're killing this!")

I suppose, all in all, children being brought to a protest, unless violent does not always have to be a bad thing. The most they'd probably know is that mommy and daddy like to chant a lot, same as in church. It will boil back down to that age of accountability when they look back on that and either say, they raised me right and God really does hate/love so-and-so, or they'll be the complete opposite, denouncing their parents for putting them in situations they never truly consented to. Then the c) option comes into play as well, being the Fonz of all options.

Karilyn wrote:But what about parents taking their children to churches?

That has nothing to do with kids being used to convey a message.

Seriously, this feud you have with religion.... just let it go already.

I_Like_Pie wrote:I'm agnostic, and I frequently ponder starting my own religion. I am prochoice, believe in gay marriage, and I don't care about sex before marriage.

:awesome:

*shares similar beliefs*

I'm agnostic as well, but I'm teetering to the philosophical side of alchemy for the sake of establishing a routine and being able to focus on school and art at the same time. So far it's been working. Whatever works, eh? Also, I am bisexual, but I look more at females than males. Seems like there's slim pickings on either side around my neighborhood, though...but one can dream.

Alchemy?

So how's turning lead into gold working out?

Karilyn wrote:But what about parents taking their children to churches?

That's just the conservative "God will save all" parents. Some parents are so conservative that they take it upon themselves to try and save other children's souls. I would know; I was a victim of that in Alaska. While this lady was nice, she was still trying her very best through some power that she believed to be pouring into her from God to "bring me into the arms of the Lord."

I'm bisexual. She didn't like that.
I'm a martial artist, and have no qualms about offing someone who is being a booty. She didn't like that either.
I drew pictures of my characters, who don't exactly look like the friendliest organisms in existence. She thought I was sketching live pictures of the devil. *facepalm*
I walked away. She left me alone. (Thank God!)

Defenestrator2.0 wrote:

Karilyn wrote:But what about parents taking their children to churches?

That has nothing to do with kids being used to convey a message.

Seriously, this feud you have with religion.... just let it go already.

Actually, she has a feud with Christianity.

Defenestrator2.0 wrote:

Karilyn wrote:But what about parents taking their children to churches?

That has nothing to do with kids being used to convey a message.

I don't think it's children being used to convey a message so much as not giving them the option to think for themselves.

Ultimately I think there are only really two kinds of parents in stuff like this - the kind that want their children to share their beliefs, and the kind that encourages their children to find their own thoughts and opinions, regardless of if they agree with it. Religious beliefs can be a really good example of this. We had a thread forever-and-a-day ago about "if you were raised _____, you are most likely one." It sparked a lot of drama because they were just trying to use religion as an example when it was brought up if you're raised by athiests, you're probably going to be one too. And if you were raised catholic, you're probably going to be catholic. Etc. etc.

I still disagree it is horribly wrong to let the parents take their children to protests if it's their choice. The child doesn't understand, so I'm not going to hold it against them for participating. A child who experienced it without understanding is probably going to ask someone about it later. Unfortunately, it's probably going to their parent(s) feeding the child answers that make their side look right, but once again, it's their child and I have no authority to tell them how to raise them. I think Plasma said something along the lines earlier that just because you encourage your child to be open-minded and find their own beliefs doesn't mean they're going to be a well-adjusted person. Nor would it mean that just because someone's parents were over-bearing and pushing their own beliefs does it mean the person will be mal-adjusted. I think it ultimately depends on the child's own thoughts and personality, and if the child sways easily to the will of others, they'll either: a) well... sway to the will of others. Convince themselves what others tell them is their own thoughts and just go along with it. or b) grow out of it and decide what to think for themselves. But that still doesn't garantee they won't decide they agree with their parents and act just as closed-minded in the future.

Ultimately I feel like arguing whether or not a parent should be allowed/able to take their children to protests like these is just asking, "Should we or should we not shelter them from this experience?"
I'd say unless you know the child personally and think that the experience would pressure them to just go along with whatever people tell them, you don't have any right to but in and start pulling pieces out of the jenga tower of their life just because you think it might do some good, but ultimately have no idea of the consequences later in life.

Crawfish wrote:Alchemy?

So how's turning lead into gold working out?

Not like that, smart one. It's the PHILOSOPHY behind it that intrigues me the most. I'm not trying the experiments...not without advice from one of my friends in Oregon, who makes chocolate using alchemy. The philosophical representations of the body, mind, and soul combined with the science is interesting to me, is all. I'm not one of those idiots who goes around drawing circles or clapping my hands or snapping my fingers like I'm Ed or Roy. It's just not done.

Feyrhagan wrote: Not like that, smart one. It's the PHILOSOPHY behind it that intrigues me the most. I'm not trying the experiments...not without advice from one of my friends in Oregon, who makes chocolate using alchemy.

...It's FAILED inorganic chemistry.

...Chocolate is not made with alchemy.