Taboo Topics (Heavily moderated)

[Vax]

Not really so much a Taboo Topic as something that's just very sad

I really hope they get some help. In some ways, at least, it's good that this happened and brought attention to her situation.

[Alkarii]

I hate to see someone in a dark place. Even though I know (sort of) that if I ever met someone who has become suicidal it's best to handle them gently and try to show them they still matter, that they aren't worthless or invisible, I'd probably bungle the whole thing badly.

Maybe show her Sean Kennedy's Suicide Rant? I don't know for sure if it'll actually work, but it might give her a laugh until you figure out a way to show her how they can change things for themselves, and that people actually do care (though they don't always show it). Plus, daisies near everything is temporary, so maybe you (or whoever provides psychiate help) could get her to see that and come out of it.

I hope it goes well.

[musicandilikeit]

To be honest, I feel like a horrible person for saying this. But over my high-school/teenage years I have had two or three people I know attempt suicide, and one actually kill themselves. I have also attempted suicide, and this is the part that makes me feel horrible, but I honestly don't make a big deal out of that stuff anymore. One night I got in an argument with a girlfriend, she then swallowed everything in the medicine cabinet. I wasn't in town so I had no phonebook, so I called and woke up my best friend, had him look up her address, and then give me her number so I could call her parents. I'm not sure I can say I would even do the same now. Maybe I'm dull to it, and yes all life is precious and it concerns me when someone is having those horrible thoughts that I still have to fight off years later. But I don't see the big deal is all.

[Riku]

"Yes. I am going to tell someone who was clearly emotionally shaken that I am unconcerned by their events. What could possibly go wrong?"
If you don't care about it, then don't talk about it, dude. That attitude with this type of topic just makes you come across as a jerk. Which I'm sure is not your intent, but you see what I'm saying, yes?

[Rinoko]

Can I just ask something without people considering me an ignorant buffoon?

This entire debate about feminism seems to me like for the most part, it's a group of women saying how they'd like to be treated as equals and they're tired of being looked at as stereotypical pieces of meat. I get where they're coming from, and I agree that in some situations, women are treated very differently than men, usually not in a good way. However, when someone DOES try to portray women as strong and independent, it's often met with backlash because that's not how women should be viewed either.

I'm not talking about the radical feminists who claim that everything men do promotes rape culture or whatever, and I understand that the non-radical feminists aren't just shouting at nothing and making claims with no argumentative basis. My question, then, is how DO you women want to be treated? Please don't think I'm so dissociated with the opposite sex as to not understand how to interact with them. I know when something is obviously wrong with the way women are treated or portrayed. For instance, I know that oftentimes the "strong, independent" woman shown in media is later revealed to have a fragile butterfly interior that a man must bring out, and that's obviously not a good representation of women. But there are times when I see a woman complaining about something that frankly seems harmless to me(can't think of a specific example right now, sorry). How can men like me better understand how women want to be treated in these scenarios?

I'm absolutely not saying that they should all just stop whining and accept the status quo, but it is a little frustrating when I see very clearly level-headed women who don't really explain what exactly they want in terms of equality, whether it be in media, politics, whatever. This is really just about what men can do to understand the situation better.

[Shad]

My question, then, is how DO you women want to be treated?

I'm not a woman, but from what I gather, women want to be treated:
-With respect.
-Like people.

[Rinoko]

How did I know that was going to be someone's first response? I'm not a dumbass, I understand that much at least.

[Shad]

I… honestly don't know what else to say.

A significant portion of shows and books out there do not portray women as people but as plot devices to guide a male protagonist's adventures/ growth. To an extent, having characters like these is unavoidable, as things need to happen to make things interesting (most of the time, at least, as some fictions are really good without having much happening at all). It's not just women who get to act as plot devices either, of course. However it's often the case, because a male protagonist acting out of love for someone is something that speaks to a wide audience. And it can be fine, really - when the women in question are portrayed beyond their sentimental value to the protagonist. Because if they're not, then they're not actually important as a person - they're items, excuses for the hero to do something. And, that's not a positive portrayal of women.

Feminists would like it better if in more shows, women were depicted as actual humans, useful humans. Take Hercules, the 2014 movie. I've only seen the trailer for it, mind you, but what does it show you? Hercules' family, his wife and children, are just here to be taken away from him, to make him sad and angry - so they're essentially a plot device, an excuse to get stuff started. The muscle-bound gruff guy gets mad because his beautiful sexy wife gets killed. There's also a woman playing one of Hercules' fellow warriors in the movie, though - and whaddayaknow, she's wearing a skirt, and boob plate armour that bares her midriff, despite the men mostly sporting sensible armour in the trailers. That's another issue there, needing to make the women as sexy as possible by making them show as much skin as you can, even if it goes against common sense.

[Cori]

Okay I'm not going to start a paragraphs-long response because my parents have guests over at the moment and are expecting me to be social (yick) but I will say one thing. The problem that a lot of women find when a female character is considered a 'strong, independant woman' is that their 'strong, independant woman'-ness is the ONLY ASPECT of their personality. Unless they turn out to have a secret girly sparkly feminine side, which is so cliche I could barf, these tough women are only there to make snarky remarks and rebuff a man's advances.

They're boring, flat, cut-out characters because instead of writing them like a person, the writer focused only on 'lol they don't need no man'.

[Ersatz]

Great Handsome Oppressor and Cori said it better but oh well.

Half of the human population is female so I don't think women think being female is a big deal. Meanwhile, in fiction that isn't targetting girls, being female usually serves a narrative purpose. Women are written as women first and then maybe as characters, while men are just characters.
Take a look at Kate Beaton's take on it. Strong Female Characters are walking tracts against the traditional way women are portayed (damsels in distress, sexy trophies, etc). As such, they're not allowed to show weaknesses or feelings, to be passive, or to receive help from a man in any way. But that doesn't work because that makes them uninteresting, unrealistic and unsympathetic characters. They rationalize why they wear revealing outfits ("It's practical"/"It makes me feel powerful"/"I decide what is proper") but it's still a man's idea of what a woman thinks is empowering. In the end, they still exist mainly to be sexy and they are still centered around [their hatred of / contempt for] men. It reinforces the idea that women should feel confident only if men consider them attractive, and not on their own merit.

[Reyo]

I want to say the question of "just how do women want to be treated?!" Is less to be some serious question to gather any info, and more something to note the inconsistencies in how members of the gender answer it. Of course people are going to answer "like people.". The thing is that the question is short sighted. People suck. They assume, get greedy, make attribution errors, appeal to hypocrisy and think like individuals despite taking part in a collective society. That's people. They're shortcomings of human psychology. Why are women itemized in the video game world? Why do people believe one gender is superior to another? Why do people use violence to justify counterviolence? Any number of reasons ranging from as comex to the fact that they get away with it to as simple as the fact that people suck. That shits unisex.

[Doormaster]

feel like you're being overly cynical there. Yeah some people suck, but a bunch of other people are pretty cool. I don't think making a mistake or being a dick every once in a while qualifies the majority of people on the earth as 'sucking'

[Reyo]

I was also using the word "suck", ironically, as a less cynical version of "imperfect."

I'm not trying to be Edgar Allen Poe.

[Turbro]

I want to say the question of "just how do women want to be treated?!" Is less to be some serious question to gather any info, and more something to note the inconsistencies in how members of the gender answer it.

Okay but men would do this too if you were to ask a large enough group, so I don't really see where you're coming from with this.

[Barabba]

Soooooo, is it politically correct to refer to black people as "black people"?