AWKWARD ZOMBIE

Syobon wrote:Nobody is saying all of their accounts got hacked, people are bringing it up because it could've been possible, now or in the future.

They seem to be putting a really heavy emphasis on it then. They could've stopped at "It's possible they were hacked" and not gone on and on about the implications of getting hacked. The fact that they rolled with it made it sound like they wanted to make it the focal point of the whole thing.

Lambeth wrote:

Reyo wrote:Besides, isn't it a cardinal rule to NEVER say anything you want associated to your name on a medium that has your name on it? What? You think "Reyo" is in any way shape or form even related to my name? Hell no, and I'm not nearly as bad as some of the drivel that's spewed on this lovable cesspool we call "the internet"

This is why I value anonymity on the internet. I've said some straight up sexist things in the past and nobody can punish me for that in the future because I wasn't using my real name(or even this one!)

edit: and I think at least one public shaming is really harmless. Racism needs to confronted, not ignored in the hope that it goes away.

The best way to remove racism is to stop making such a fuss of race. When you freak out over racism, you now have two cases of division between the races, the first being the actual racism, and the second from the crowd making a fuss over how wrong it is to be racist. I'm not saying racism is right, I'm saying that the best way to achieve equality is to just treat others equally. Give the racist dick a scolding and go on with life. There's no need to plaster it everywhere because then you just have twice as much shouting over an issue where what we're working for is peaceful ignorance that there's even an issue.

EDIT:
peaceful ignorance = nobody's getting upset because when people look at each other, their race doesn't even come into mind. What that happens, there will be no instances of racism, neither from the side committing the racism, nor from the side feeling discriminated.

Reyo wrote: The best way to remove racism is to stop making such a fuss of race. When you freak out over racism, you now have two cases of division between the races, the first being the actual racism, and the second from the crowd making a fuss over how wrong it is to be racist. I'm not saying racism is right, I'm saying that the best way to achieve equality is to just treat others equally. Give the racist dick a scolding and go on with life. There's no need to plaster it everywhere because then you just have twice as much shouting over an issue where what we're working for is peaceful ignorance that there's even an issue.

EDIT:
peaceful ignorance = nobody's getting upset because when people look at each other, their race doesn't even come into mind. What that happens, there will be no instances of racism, neither from the side committing the racism, nor from the side feeling discriminated.

I can't see why you would think this in the wake of how obama was treated the past 4 years. And if courting the racist vote wasn't a major part of the republican election juggernaut for the past 40 or so years.

(I'm assuming maybe incorrectly you're talking from the perspective of an american. Not to say race relations are better across the world, it just tends to be different.)

All the same though, the way the school systems are combating racism is pretty much terrible.

Right now they tend to point out the differences that kids have in classes, then reinforce the idea that it's bad to think of them based on this differences, effectively letting the cat out of the bag and telling kids to not look at it or think about it.

Had they left well enough alone, maybe they wouldn't have noticed that Jeff is the only black kid in the class and is different from the other kids, especially at a time where differences make you uncool/stupid.

Racism needs to be confronted, but right now, it's hard to have a clear cut answer as to how to go about it. Bring it up too young, and kids, being the naturally immature, self-serving, and non-empathizing creatures they are won't take the message to heart. Let the parents deal with it, and we have shit like this going on.

And that's not discounting some teenagers being little shits that think contrary/edgey/offensive opinions are cool.

There's a lot of different factors that go into people being racist, including personal responsibility. It's not very easy to find a solution that works, and even harder to find one that doesn't have drawbacks, and I don't think making an example of these kids is exactly the way to go.

Lambeth wrote:

Reyo wrote: The best way to remove racism is to stop making such a fuss of race. When you freak out over racism, you now have two cases of division between the races, the first being the actual racism, and the second from the crowd making a fuss over how wrong it is to be racist. I'm not saying racism is right, I'm saying that the best way to achieve equality is to just treat others equally. Give the racist dick a scolding and go on with life. There's no need to plaster it everywhere because then you just have twice as much shouting over an issue where what we're working for is peaceful ignorance that there's even an issue.

EDIT:
peaceful ignorance = nobody's getting upset because when people look at each other, their race doesn't even come into mind. What that happens, there will be no instances of racism, neither from the side committing the racism, nor from the side feeling discriminated.

I can't see why you would think this in the wake of how obama was treated the past 4 years. And if courting the racist vote wasn't a major part of the republican election juggernaut for the past 40 or so years.

(I'm assuming maybe incorrectly you're talking from the perspective of an american. Not to say race relations are better across the world, it just tends to be different.)

I am American, offensively so even so I don't really blame you. I just figure that if we want people to be treated like equals, we just shut up and treat them like equals. I understand wanting to scold people who still go against it, but making such a big deal out of it can actually be detrimental to the cause.

Kamak wrote: Right now they tend to point out the differences that kids have in classes, then reinforce the idea that it's bad to think of them based on this differences, effectively letting the cat out of the bag and telling kids to not look at it or think about it.

This is basically the core of my point. It's the same premise behind "cultural awareness" being more detrimental to assimilation instead of less. Yes, we get that you're trying to say "It's OK to be different", but in doing so you're pointing out the fact that we're different whereas before we didn't really have it anywhere in our thought process. Then we're enjoying the whole event while the nagging feeling of "we're different" eats away at us.

If we just go about our business like it's no big deal, which is what we want, then the problem will effectively be solved. Sex was never an awkward thing with me and my parents because when it came up, my parents didn't dance around it like it was some big awkward thing (that was then reinforced as something that shouldn't be awkward) they just talked about it as they would the topic of family vacations, or college.

I feel reasonably certain that ignoring racism will not just magically make it go away.

Cream Soda wrote:I feel reasonably certain that ignoring racism will not just magically make it go away.

Not ignoring it, just not blowing it out of proportion when it happens. If we're working towards a goal of race being "no big deal", then we need to stop making big deals out of it.

Race should not be a big deal at all, but racism is always a big deal.

If we're to make it so, then we need to make both not a big deal. We can't have silent acceptance while one side, either side, is yelling at the other.

I don't know what you mean. Prejudice can't be "not a big deal" because it never goes away if people don't fight it. Think, for example, about how women are now free to make their own decisions and are allowed to participate in business and politics. Although we think nothing of it now, this would not have been okay in the past, because women were thought to be 'incapable' and 'stupid,' and it only changed because people fought against it.

Well that's not just prejudice, that's civil rights. They're closely related, but not entirely the same thing. There is still prejudice against women everywhere, and in some countries, it is still just as bad as it ever was.

It's a bit pessimistic for me to say, which is well out of my nature, but prejudice will probably always exist. There will always be those who take advantages of the differences between people to elevate themselves, and demean others. Obviously, the world has come far in many ways, but there are also many areas where we have been found lacking in progress, and even situations where steps have been taken backward, such as intercontinental prejudice , despite long strides made in interconnectedness like the internet.

There could very well be a time when there is no racism or prejudice of any kind, but I personally believe that that day is far off, and cannot come with the state of the human condition as it is. Prejudice will always exist where there is ignorance and separation. Progressive education is the key to the elimination of hate and bigotry.

Okay civil rights I mean. I was trying to cite how at least the western world has made a good deal of progress through opposition. There is sexism and racism aplenty, but there is at least slightly less inequality now where sex and race are concerned. For the western world anyway. I know that in some places it's really awful.

Reyo wrote:

Syobon wrote:Nobody is saying all of their accounts got hacked, people are bringing it up because it could've been possible, now or in the future.

They seem to be putting a really heavy emphasis on it then. They could've stopped at "It's possible they were hacked" and not gone on and on about the implications of getting hacked. The fact that they rolled with it made it sound like they wanted to make it the focal point of the whole thing.

They were putting emphasis on the possibility because the implications are horrible. To use your murder thing from above:
"The murder was committed with a knife from YOUR kitchen! There were no finger prints or any DNA on it linking you to the murder, but we'll just assume it was you because it's your knife. It's not like every single person with access to your kitchen could have snuck it out or anything. So we'll brand you as a murderer forever."

They have no possibility of knowing if it was really those kids doing it or some idiot who found out their password or them leaving their accounts logged in. Yet they still brand them for life, on the internet. There used to be such a thing as "innocent until proven guilty". And given that it's nigh impossible to prove it was actually them, and they're minors... don't let it slide completely but don't fuck over their lives forever.

Cream Soda wrote:I don't know what you mean. Prejudice can't be "not a big deal" because it never goes away if people don't fight it. Think, for example, about how women are now free to make their own decisions and are allowed to participate in business and politics. Although we think nothing of it now, this would not have been okay in the past, because women were thought to be 'incapable' and 'stupid,' and it only changed because people fought against it.

I agree that we should react to it, but you can react to something without making such a big deal out of it. If a store turns out to not hire black people, then you close that store down. What you DON'T do is make a national news story out of it, cause the masses to freak out, boycott other locations of the same store, and make petitions etc. It's the reaction I find ridiculous more than anything, I mainly don't trust the public to be able to take something like this with humility.

D-vid wrote:

Reyo wrote:

Syobon wrote:Nobody is saying all of their accounts got hacked, people are bringing it up because it could've been possible, now or in the future.

They seem to be putting a really heavy emphasis on it then. They could've stopped at "It's possible they were hacked" and not gone on and on about the implications of getting hacked. The fact that they rolled with it made it sound like they wanted to make it the focal point of the whole thing.

They were putting emphasis on the possibility because the implications are horrible. To use your murder thing from above:
"The murder was committed with a knife from YOUR kitchen! There were no finger prints or any DNA on it linking you to the murder, but we'll just assume it was you because it's your knife. It's not like every single person with access to your kitchen could have snuck it out or anything. So we'll brand you as a murderer forever."

They have no possibility of knowing if it was really those kids doing it or some idiot who found out their password or them leaving their accounts logged in. Yet they still brand them for life, on the internet. There used to be such a thing as "innocent until proven guilty". And given that it's nigh impossible to prove it was actually them, and they're minors... don't let it slide completely but don't fuck over their lives forever.

I wanna say that's even less so because with something like your kitchen, you have (or should only have) only a few people who could have access to it. I know with my cutlery it's either me, my 3 roommates, and one of my roommate's girlfriends. That's 4 people, at most. That's a pretty good suspect lineup. With facebook hacking, you have bodaciously anyone at any time who accesses a computer after the guy who owns the account (who forgot to log out). I can see where that would work, but there's a reason the police work on more than just "It's possible". There's means, motive, and opportunity. Simply having it be possible only covers one of those three (opportunity), but you need all three just to juggle the notion that he did it. The knife example includes means to the mix (having a knife to kill the guy).

Also I'm not really saying let it slide. Just delete the comments and warn the guy that any other racial scandals would cost them their accounts (or something along those lines.) Just discipline them, and nothing more.

What do you guys think is the best way that kids can deal with bullies?

I'm not sure what other thread would be an appropriate place to discuss this.

Your sig describes an excellent way to deal with bullies.