AWKWARD ZOMBIE

Badfish wrote:Anything that is sad it's so bizarre to me.
I understand natural sadness likes death,pain, fear and all that but what I don't understand is why people purposely try to make themselves or others sad with pain, stories, songs, abuse. It's bewildering that a horrible book with sadness,death,pain,abuse, and deceit can go and make top sells and be generally well liked.God damnit be pop flyin'!

People like feeling emotions, even the bad one. Plus, it sorta gives them a more rounded approach to life; only being interested in pop flyin' stuff and ignoring the sad stuff is going to give you a very wrong perspective.
At least, that's my theory.

Badfish wrote:I understand natural sadness likes death

I don't.
I mean, I can sorta see what's so sad about it, but c'mon, you knew it was gonna happen at some point! And its not that big a deal in the first place!
Worse is when people get really saddened by people they don't even know and never even met! Not so much because they're fairly insignificant, but because people die all the frigging time! Like, remember the Virginia Tech massacre, where 33 people died? That's how many people die in 10 seconds in the real world! And don't get me started on September 11th!

Oh, and on top of that, apparently only humans are treated as truly living! Then you've got cute animals like cats and dogs, they're considered sorta living but not enough to treat as humans. And by the time you go down as far as insects, you get to the point where people go out of their way to kill them! Gah!


tl;dr: Airigh is right, most people are idiots.

Pretty much everything Plasma just said about death pisses me off. By your logic it's completely okay for me to pick up a gun and murder everyone within a 10-mile radius because they are all going to die anyway. As for the animal thing, that's mostly because animals a lot of animals are not very intelligent. Most aren't even self-aware. I'm pretty sure an insect has no concept of death. The ones that are smart (like dolphins) people actually do care about.

Sorry for sounding like a jerk/douche/whatever. I couldn't really think of a more polite way to phrase my opinions.
Edit: Well, I suppose I could have left out where I said what he said pisses me off, but then my post would have been off-topic.

Zink wrote:As for the animal thing, that's mostly because animals a lot of animals are not very intelligent. Most aren't even self-aware. I'm pretty sure an insect has no concept of death. The ones that are smart (like dolphins) people actually do care about.

I'd disagree. There's no particular reason for an ultimate decision that how alive a creature is depends on its intelligence. Nor is there a reason to assume that there is no real pain involved in setting an ant on fire and panicking about. In fact, I would say that the whole assumption was settled on by a lot of people just because it'd mean they have the most 'soul', even more than average people; consciously or subconciously.

Zink wrote:By your logic it's completely okay for me to pick up a gun and murder everyone within a 10-mile radius because they are all going to die anyway.

I know. And the only reason I'd say not to is because you'd be gunned down in return.
It sounds cruel, but I'm not going to compromise beliefs just because they seem inconvenient.

Zink wrote:Sorry for sounding like a jerk/douche/whatever. I couldn't really think of a more polite way to phrase my opinions.

In a debate like this, I honestly would be insulted if you tried buttering up your points to be less insulting. That's not the proper way to debate something.

I have a new one, people who use the word "bad" as a noun. UGH.

Stupid people. I simply have no patience for them.

Plasma wrote:I'd disagree. There's no particular reason for an ultimate decision that how alive a creature is depends on its intelligence. Nor is there a reason to assume that there is no real pain involved in setting an ant on fire and panicking about. In fact, I would say that the whole assumption was settled on by a lot of people just because it'd mean they have the most 'soul', even more than average people; consciously or subconciously.

I'm not saying that less intelligent animals are less "alive" (although I'm not even sure what you mean by that), I'm saying that, since they don't have a concept of death (I think), have complex relationships, or mourn each others deaths, and other things along those lines, their deaths are much less tragic than those of humans.

Plasma wrote:I know. And the only reason I'd say not to is because you'd be gunned down in return.
It sounds cruel, but I'm not going to compromise beliefs just because they seem inconvenient.

Wat. Did I misread that, or did you just say that there is nothing wrong with murder? What about the family and friends of those who I would have killed? Is it really "okay" to cause them such pain? Think of it this way. How would you feel if you were told by a doctor or something that you were going to die tomorrow, and how would you feel if someone in your family or one of your friends unexpectedly died?

Unless your point is that you don't need to feel bad for them because you don't know them, but even then, that doesn't stop it from being a bad thing.

Plasma wrote: In a debate like this, I honestly would be insulted if you tried buttering up your points to be less insulting. That's not the proper way to debate something.

You're right. I was just worried about my message just sounding like "YOU'RE WRONG BECAUSE MY OPINIONS ARE BETTER", mostly because it technically wasn't a debate at that point.

I hate that my garlic butter turned out badly. Fucking shallots.

Right, before reading, keep in mind that I am just trying to be honest here. Don't anyone go complaining about how cruel or selfish or lying I am. Just a heads up.

Zink wrote:I'm not saying that less intelligent animals are less "alive" (although I'm not even sure what you mean by that), I'm saying that, since they don't have a concept of death (I think), have complex relationships, or mourn each others deaths, and other things along those lines, their deaths are much less tragic than those of humans.

Among their own species? Yes, it is less tragic for them. But that doesn't mean their death should be considered, relative to the death of a person, a really good thing!

Plus, mourning a death is, as far as I know, a trait only among Tetrapods.

Zink wrote:Did I misread that, or did you just say that there is nothing wrong with murder?

Relatively speaking, a little bit of murder here and there isn't going to do any real harm.

Zink wrote:What about the family and friends of those who I would have killed?

I like to employ a policy of "sucks to be them". I like to care for people equally, rather than picking favourites just because they're in my local area. If I didn't largely care about the deaths in the last two minutes, I don't see why I should be all mopey over five seconds worth of them.

Zink wrote:Think of it this way. How would you feel if you were told by a doctor or something that you were going to die tomorrow,

But that's me. To me, that person is someone really special, someone I couldn't live without! So... bad example.

Zink wrote:and how would you feel if someone in your family or one of your friends unexpectedly died?

Depends who. If it was a sibling, I'd be annoyed just because I'd have to go to their funeral and such, followed by having to act like I care for the parents, and then probably get anxious about having some sort of mental illnesses for a while. If it was a parent, then woo, I don't like my parents. If it was a member of an extended family, been there done that, I don't care (it was my grandpa, by the way). If its a friend, see the last point (One took the An Hero route wit a shotgun to the head. Considering that we weren't great friends, it got me off home jobs for a while and a day off school, and that it makes a great discussion topic, I found it a good thing myself)





AND IN BRIGHT pop flyin' NEWS:

Avion wrote:I have a new one, people who use the word "bad" as a noun. UGH.

Power Glove excluded, right? C'mon, you have to make an exception for the Glove!

You're going to hell Plasma.

See you there!

Teachers that act "professional: if you know what I mean,

it's like they shut down their souls or something.

When my family is like "Okay, we're going to leave now," but stay around to talk to everyone for another 20 minutes.

God Plasma, you just don't get it, you stupid douchenozzle. You are going to miss out on everything great in life and die angry.

Plasma wrote:

Zink wrote:Did I misread that, or did you just say that there is nothing wrong with murder?

Relatively speaking, a little bit of murder here and there isn't going to do any real harm.

So I suppose you wouldn't mind if, say, somebody caved in the back of your skull with a tire iron. I mean, it's not going to do any real harm, right?

Plasma wrote:

Zink wrote:Think of it this way. How would you feel if you were told by a doctor or something that you were going to die tomorrow,

But that's me. To me, that person is someone really special, someone I couldn't live without! So... bad example.

IT'S ALL RELATIVE LOL. JUST ANOTHER STATISTIC, I SUPPOSE. IT'S NOT GOING TO AFFECT SOCIETY, SO YOUR DEATH WOULD BE INSIGNIFICANT AND NOT WORTH CRYING OVER, AMIRITE?

Plasma wrote:

Zink wrote:and how would you feel if someone in your family or one of your friends unexpectedly died?

Depends who.

No cherry-picking. All or nothing. You took the stance that no loss of human life is worth crying over, so you fucking stick to it.

Plasma wrote:

Zink wrote:What about the family and friends of those who I would have killed?

I like to employ a policy of "sucks to be them". I like to care for people equally, rather than picking favourites just because they're in my local area. If I didn't largely care about the deaths in the last two minutes, I don't see why I should be all mopey over five seconds worth of them.

Because death matters. You can't just say, "Oh, well, I didn't know them, so why should I care?" Many people do great things with their lives. What if Martin Luther King Jr. or Gandhi had died before their time? You can't honestly say that the world would be the same today if they had. People amount to things, and people's accomplishments affect us in different ways, either large or small. Everything you see around you was made by, or even made possible, by a person. Your computer, your speakers, your desk, your house. It is the chain of human interaction that has made all these things possible. It is because of others that you have your possessions, and even your life. Had either of your parents been killed, you might never be alive today. Ignorance is no excuse for insolence. Who are you to judge the quality of life that a person has lived? Everybody does good deeds, and most of the time they are small. But these deeds affect us, maybe not tremendously, but they affect us nevertheless. Logically, we should not mourn the loss of human life, and I think it's that mindset that you're focusing on. However, realistically, we do mourn. Human beings are social creatures by nature. We thrive on interactions with others, and every small interaction adds to who we are, becomes a part of us. From a smile, to holding a door open, these actions that perfect strangers perform for us subconsciously influence us through our mood, our feelings, and our memories. The brain is a complex organ, and even in this day and age, where technology and science reigns supreme, we are no closer to understanding its secrets. Sometimes our habits and mannerisms don't follow logic. Sometimes we don't know the reasons behind our actions. We can't always understand why we do things, but that doesn't make them any less significant.

Alex wrote:When my family is like "Okay, we're going to leave now," but stay around to talk to everyone for another 20 minutes.

This.

...Wow, Plasma. Just... wow. When I started that debate, I thought I was interpreting you statements as worse than they actually were. Turns out I thought wrong. Defenestrator2.0 pretty much said everything I was going to say, except for two things.
1. The fact that you consider the suicide of someone you considered even barely a friend a good thing is horrible.

and

2. In the statement "I love the Power Glove. It's so bad." the word bad is an adjective, not a noun.

Anyway, I think it may be a good thing if we just never bring the subject up again. Hell, I'm going to go ahead and pretend this whole debate never happened.