HOLY SHIT IT'S E3 2012

[Kamak]

It's just terrible that gaming is becoming something that anyone can enjoy rather than a niche market appealing to an ever-shrinking and increasingly entitled consumer base, as it was in the 90's when they realized they needed to start expanding their horizons and consumer base before the whole thing collapsed underneath them.

[Shad]

Who actually gives a fucking shit about some yellow blocks jesus christ

Wah people are talking about things they should stop

It's just terrible that gaming is becoming something that anyone can enjoy rather than a niche market appealing to an ever-shrinking and increasingly entitled consumer base

Where the hell did that come from? There's a difference between making a game easy to understand and learn, and making it dumb.

[D-vid]

Mario games generally aren't games that would need to be made easier.

[Kamak]

I'm talking about the gamer community back in the late 90's, the ones that protested against the inclusion of the "mainstream gamers" in the first place because it would mean less focus on them, while at the same time bitching at companies for not providing quality games in a speedy enough manner.

Is there any wonder why companies preferred to focus on the mainstream gamers (getting a fresh new consumer base pop flyin' with the products they distribute) rather than on the old "hardcore fans" (who were fickle and decreasing over time)?

There's still a bit of that today, but it's largely not the same as it was back then, mainly because there's a lot more stability in the market now with so many consumers being in it.

So please, don't put words in my mouth. I was talking about the shift to mainstream, not anyone here. I apologize for any confusion over my wording.

[Syobon]

I understand them wanting to appeal to the mainstream audience, but it would be nice if we could get some games specifically targeted at the core once in a while. Plus, I believe it's possible to make a game appealing to a mainstream audience without making it as shallow as a puddle of water. Furthermore, and I've already expanded upon this in the debate thread, I'm sick of people complaining that hardcore gamers should just deal with it because we're a minority. We are paying customers and we have a right to be heard. If you have a counter-argument to any of the points we bring up, by all means share it, but don't resort to ad populum arguments.

[Shad]

They should just focus on making good games.

[Gryewolf]

Dishonored stream, looks neat

Has anybody uploaded the stream yet, I can't find it.

[hotb]

Kamak are you some kind of advocate of shitty games?

[Mete]

Dishonored stream, looks neat

Has anybody uploaded the stream yet, I can't find it.

I've had the stream open for hours now and can jump back to any moment. Odd that they don't let everyone do that.

[Gryewolf]

Dishonored stream, looks neat

Has anybody uploaded the stream yet, I can't find it.

I've had the stream open for hours now and can jump back to any moment. Odd that they don't let everyone do that.

It might just be me.
I'll fiddle around with it some more once I get back home.

[Guyperson]

As much as I love Kamak and princess brothel and whoever else arguing over games, I don't think the E3 thread is the place to watch you guys.
Also 2.5 hours until 3ds conference.

[Syobon]

We're discussing games announced at E3. What else is this thread for?

[D-vid]

Not going to be here fir it. I hope there will be some release dates and/or surprise game announcements. Haha, right.

[Guyperson]

It's pretty much just about the casualization of games at this point in the argument.

[Kamak]

I understand them wanting to appeal to the mainstream audience, but it would be nice if we could get some games specifically targeted at the core once in a while. Plus, I believe it's possible to make a game appealing to a mainstream audience without making it as shallow as a puddle of water. Furthermore, and I've already expanded upon this in the debate thread, I'm sick of people complaining that hardcore gamers should just deal with it because we're a minority. We are paying customers and we have a right to be heard. If you have a counter-argument to any of the points we bring up, by all means share it, but don't resort to ad populum arguments.

And this is the thing that I don't understand about the "core audience". Why is it that when the core audience is brought into a conversation they're treated as an entity that all share the same opinion? They all want X game because it's a core game. They all want Y feature because it appeals to them all. The mainstream get bunched up too (though that's mainly to set up a target), but at least with the core audience, the individuals seem to be speaking for the whole group, which often results in a "anyone who disagrees with me isn't a core gamer".

And, as you said, you're a paying customer. You're heard with your cheddar. This means the popular opinion on the matter wins. You're complaining that you're a minority but at the same time you expect the company to listen or else you won't purchase.

So here's the thing, you can't be heard with your purchase because your "vote" is outdone by others who are pop flyin' with the product, and you don't want to deal with the fact that you're a minority. You're not being heard because you're not saying anything to them directly. Unless you happen to have some "gaming representative" speaking your opinions to the company, you technically are "dealing with it". What do you do? You try going direct to the company. Send letters, e-mails, tweets, whatever telling them what you find wrong. People bitch about the fact that fans got butthurt and had a massive campaign against EA for the ME3 ending, but at least they got the point across that they were upset, despite the fact that they originally bought the game.

However, how many people are actually doing this? Actually making sure they are heard rather than just complaining about it on forums, MSN, Skype, etc. (which is fine for regular venting, but shit for trying to actively change anything)? That's part of the problem. You can't reasonably expect a company to figure out what they're doing wrong when they have the sales reassuring them and the fans aren't coming to them to complain.

They should just focus on making good games.

Which is something subjective.

But honestly, here's the thing I want to ask. Most of you guys have played Super Mario World before. You've fought Reznor and know what to do. When you got to them in this game, were you going to be confused as to what to do and try out every option you could to defeat them? Do the blocks insult YOUR intelligence just because other people might need them because this is their first Mario game/they're used to stomping enemies instead of flipping them from below (which does seem to be becoming a less used strategy to get rid of enemies in recent games)? Would it actually make the game any less fun just because they're there for the new people?

In this case, they put something in there to help the mainstream gamers, but it hasn't done anything to make the game inherently easier for the hardcore gamers. It's able to appeal to both markets.