Taboo Topics (Heavily moderated)

[Reyo]

I'm thinking the issue isn't that everyone thinks those words are made up. The issue comes from people using them (often incorrectly) to get what they want.

"I'm going to be a complete asshole to this person, but it's OK because they have 'white privilege'!"

"You can't sympathize with that culture because you have 'not that culture privilege', but I can because I'm transculture. That makes it OK when I participate in this holiday that's specific to that culture, but not you, that's racist."

[Shad]

If you claim every source is run by cis white straight christian males (who aren't actually all evil or oppressive) then the only "reliable" source left is tumblr blogs with no research or scientific validity.

I think that's not accurate. There are other sources for ideas such as these ones. People wanting to talk about the problems of trans* folks didn't start doing so when tumblr popped up on the web. It existed way before tumblr. I'd bet many books were written about it.

[Game Angel]

I think you're failing to see the difference between a difference of opinion and a full-out personal attack, Oracle.

I like social justice. I see people working towards human rights in the real world, not just behind a computer, and it's a good thing. What I don't like is when people twist it to use it to validate their hatred, which is what some people tend to do. They also tend to be very US- or at Europe-centric, what with (for example) the claims of white people being the most privileged, and the majority in all of the world. It's a safe assumption to use most of the time because they often enjoy a higher degree of it. But you'd be daft to say that's always the case, and I see people making stupid generalizations like that when they try to sound smart and it does not help their point one bit.

As for language, it does change, but in order for that change to occur, it needs to be used on a widespread basis. As in not just by a few thousand people on a blogging platform. I'm not completely disagreeing with Oracle, words from different civil rights movements have worked their way into the mainstream, but there are things that are still not widely used for one reason or another. It's why we don't see the definition of racism as "power+ prejudice" (which was coined by a rich white woman) on the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

[Nevran]

@The Idiotic Oracle, what is the point of your post? I mean, what is the point of taking a direction like "I will explain to you what is the truth" when you took all the people here who aren't okay with your idea for some idiots who don't want to hear the truth? (And this is the "nice example" from your post, you are way more harsh on it)

If you are like an oracle, you better use some mirror if people are so stupid. Don't waste everyone's time to explain thing to them when you will, in the end, treat them like they are the most stupid, stubborn idiot in the planet.

There is a difference between "Constructive debate, criticism" and "Arrogance and disrespectful behavior", you just showed it right here.

Ps: I don't feel touched by your post if it is what you think. Actually, the topic of this debate doesn't interest me but the form and the tone of your post actually bother me.

[corsica]

What she's saying is that the people who were mainly in charge of academia for centuries were straight, white, cis men, and that people are making a stink when people who aren't straight, white, cis men provide their valid research and their findings and their words. She never once claimed that there are absolutely no non-tumblr sources, there are plenty. Most of the time they just go ignored.

[Reyo]

I'm not entirely sure that's what the stink is about, Lolita. If someone posts research related to this topic, it's usually more that the research is used to say things like "kill all white people" or other rediculously miguided, and drastic statements. People are taking the research and using it to justify their shitty actions, like being rude to white people BECAUSE they're white "because this research says white people are shitty people". The color and gender of the person who made the research usually isn't even known, it's the guy using the research.

[Shad]

There are always misinterpreted studies, texts, quotes, etc. Non-white people don't have the monopoly of that. Don't forget that this happened the other way many times in the past, and still happens, to black and white and straight and gay and cisgendered and non-cisgendered people. It has nothing to do with skin colour.
However, it is hardly disputable that it still happens more to non-white, non-cis people. Being angry at this is understandable.

[Reyo]

I also never said that POC were the ones doing it. I said "people", as in "people in general".

[corsica]

You implied it, as most white people won't say "kill all white people".

[Reyo]

We don't know who's saying it, because the ones saying it are usually behind an anonymous, faceless profile. I didn't imply anything, you took my statement as an implication.

If anything, you guys are generalizing by saying they HAVE to be people of color if they're saying statements like that.

[Shad]

It was unclear. Now that you've clarified that it wasn't your intention, we can leave it at that, I believe.

[[Insert Fail]]

While I disagree with generalizing the forum as being completely incapable of incorporating proper terminology when referring to trans* or other minorities, Oracle brings up valid points in what is actually a nicely-worded, calm manner. You have grown a lot, Oracle.

I see people claiming that users on this forum only disagree/criticize/make fun of these terms when they're used to validate hatred or seem to come from a case of "special snowflake", but I have been on this forum long enough to have seen people complain about the term cisgender, mock the variety of sexual orientations, and see lots of genuine SJ posts as laughable. I know when I was first introduced to the terms I thought they were strange and superfluous, but constant exposure to them has helped me see them for what they are - correct.

Oracle's post may come off a bit soapbox-like and unwarranted, but as I said, she makes very valid points and I think it's a good read.

Just remember, discussion and debate are fine, but be civil.

[Reyo]

Oh definitely. The words themselves don't bother me. I've actually (believe it or not) heard them used outside in more academic settings myself. What irks me is the use.

What the real problem could be is that most of the SJ content we see ARE the ridiculous ones, where someone is intentionally rude to people "because privilege," and we see very little of the legitimate cases.

[[Insert Fail]]

This is true. It's why I sometimes think the "Dumb Comments/Screencaps" thread can be a bit toxic. It seems to only validate people's views while offering nothing to support the other side. For those that don't do research, or don't expose themselves to SJ environments, it is very misleading and can cause people to see things in a very narrow-minded manner.

(Not suggesting the thread be locked, just saying people need to get out on the internet more.)

[Reyo]

But all of my stuff is here...