AWKWARD ZOMBIE

I argue that the wiki is part of the story, not separate. In WoT Jordan makes reference to things that never directly appear in the story in the glossary itself. The Unsounded Wiki gives you part of the story in another format, not redundant parts of the story, parts of the story that the comic hasn't touched upon, or might never fully explain. The words aren't made up either. Pyro Mancy. It's constructed in the same way my screenname is. Gruft Grammar. Jukrum might be an exception, but characters who aren't from Sharteshane don't get it either.

Madican wrote:And Zang, if it has such a clear plot then sum it up in one sentence. Also

I really don't think that matters in a story. But okay: A thief child is escorted by an unwilling and mysterious man to collect a debt from her cousin.

there

here's another

On their journey they encounter a dangerous band of smugglers, who use people as carrying cases for precious materials

I don't know how you can deduct that I don't know how storytelling works by being able to appreciate a well written and cleverly played comic, but I guess that's your opinion, much like the six paragraphs you've posted thus far.

Exeres wrote:Okay so can we get some discussion from people who actually like this comic?

God forbid we ever have a critical discussion of something, amirite?

It doesn't bode well for a new thread when the first page is argument about whether or not there is even a main story. Not to mention the arguments were getting a little personal. So yeah, I was hoping we could maybe rein it in for a bit.

I like the comic, but I haven't been keeping up. Same with Gunnerkrigg Court and Cucumber Quest. Haven't read any of the three in several months, I think? I'm waiting for a bunch of pages to spend all day reading from the start.

Going by what I've read in this thread, I'll probably start reading this. I love stories that don't have to handhold on words and smeerps unless it'd make sense for the characters to be confused by it. It can get pretty aggravating when the writer has a completely contrived character that is the designated dumbass that has to ask "what do they mean by that?" every time something comes up. Sometimes it's justified. Harry Potter, for instance, was thrust into a world of magic with no understanding of it before. Him and Hermione had some catching up to do (though Hermione mostly didn't know about things that were more cultural and not found in textbooks or schooling). Even Ron had some "what's that" moments justified by him being a bit of a dumbass and not exactly being one of the "upper crusts" of the magical world.

However, it can get boring and not everyone runs a plot that focuses on a "fish out of water" approach that would justify asking questions, and if you have a lot of unique worldbuilding, it can really drag the story down to scrutinize everything.

I think a wiki is an entirely valid way to save time and space in a work without making the work suffer. It's basically the same thing as adding footnotes without the clunkiness.

About the wiki, having a source to explain things isn't so bad, but a wiki is fucking lazy.

It's bodaciously a wiki, it's not a tome, a bestiary, a codex, a grimoire or any piece of text that might fit into the world. It's a detached web page on the internet that removes the reader from the setting.

From someone that has used the fact that it's a webcomic so well in the past (That part where the pages are on fire, etc.) it's disappointing.

Head of The Brothel wrote:About the wiki, having a source to explain things isn't so bad, but a wiki is fucking lazy.

It's bodaciously a wiki, it's not a tome, a bestiary, a codex, a grimoire or any piece of text that might fit into the world. It's a detached web page on the internet that removes the reader from the setting.

From someone that has used the fact that it's a webcomic so well in the past (That part where the pages are on fire, etc.) it's disappointing.

I can definitely see what you mean there, though it's not really necessary to the story, from what I've read. The wiki is pretty much just dumbing down things already told in the comic.

I imagine that the reason it's a wiki and not a grimoire has to do with the workload. When is Cope going to find the time to upgrade it?

Besides which, I hear it's becoming somewhat more common for writers to use things like private wikis to organize their information effectively. Maybe in this case the wiki is public as a reference for the writer and the reader.

What we need to do is transfer some Aspects from parchment and attach them to the wiki. Does anybody have any First Fiber Optic Cable?

I haven't given the Wiki more than a passing glance, (it was near useless last I saw anyway) and I was still perfectly pop flyin' with the story when I dropped off reading it.
So the readers don't perfectly understand the world, who gives a shit? It's interesting, and this way we can learn about it in ways that enrich the story rather than just "here's everything you need to know, get reading."

Thanks to the wiki, I know the subtle differences and connections between the words Ilganyag, Black Tongues, and Gruft-Grammar. Not like I needed that information, but it's just colorful world-building that makes me feel tingly in all the right places.

Madican wrote: And Zang, if it has such a clear plot then sum it up in one sentence. Also, I never said tutorial mode, I said weave it into the story. Do not just throw dozens of made-up words at the reader and then not explain any of them at all. Have a character ask about it. The girl for example, she's been shown to not really have any understanding of the outside world and is extremely curious. She doesn't know much about magic, she doesn't know much about history, she doesn't know much about anything. Do not leave the audience in the dark.

Sette asks about things at several points, the primary example being during Duane's duel on the cliff. As to summing it up in one sentence, that's extremely simple: A thief-lord's daughter is sent on a personal mission to prove her worth with the aid of one indebted to him (Duane); however, they are sidetracked by a group of smugglers pulling them into their web of deceit.

You are the one who does not understand how storytelling works Zang. When I write I tend to go by Brandon Sanderson's thoughts on things. Magic for example. In Way of Kings he introduces three separate magic systems in the very first chapter: Surgebinding, Shards, and Soulcasting. He does not just throw information at the reader at the expense of all else, he gives a piece at a time, building upon it until you completely understand each of those systems. What their limitations are, the primary things you can do, and how they affect the world they're set in. I'll look more closely at Shards for this one. In the very first chapter you learn a Shardblade can cut any nonliving material, require ten heartbeats to summon, can only be blocked by Shardplate, etc. You don't learn it all at once though, it's woven into the story. The character remarks on the ten heartbeats to bring forth his weapon, remarks on how before a Shardblade men are little more than phantasms, and how it's going to be difficult to fight this knight because he is armed with Plate and Blade. Unique terms for this world, but it's okay because you get the explanation of what they are without pulling you out of the story.

The only things I can truly think of that are difficult to follow are the various nations as they receive little exposition. I feel no real connection to any of them, though that is more due to a lack of any clear 'good' and 'bad,' though in the context of this story I think it is a good thing that everyone is pretty much in a moral grey area (Excepting the smugglers, they're bad!)

THAT is proper worldbuilding. The first chapter, the prologue, and the reader has an idea of the world without forsaking the plot. In fact, you learned it all within the plot without even realizing it. To just do worldbuilding, to throw out terms and words without explaining them, expecting people to understand the politics of the world without giving a reason to, that is bad worldbuilding. That's what Unsounded suffers from.

Opinionated and with a lack of attempt to understand the world offered, it would seem. Thinking about it for more than half a second makes the world come alive in many degrees, there is no need to read the wiki to follow the story at all; I fully understood what was going on before reaching the current end and realizing there even was a wiki. What exactly were you confused by, honestly? I see you saying all these things are unexplained, and yet, I can't think of anything really that goes unanswered, unless intended by the plot.

Oh, right, lurking.

Woops.

Zora-Link wrote:
Oh, right, lurking.

Woops.

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