Western Cartoons/Comics

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I haven't read much of Thor or Ultimate Spider-man, but since Thor is basically an alien and Valhalla's a physical place, how does Peter Parker being there mean he's permanently dead?

[BurntToShreds]

Ultimate Thor is an actual god.
Also Madican, you could look at other titles, like Hellboy, BPRD, The Secret History of DB Cooper, and The Walking Dead.

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Man what, that's not nearly as interesting.

[Madican]

The kind of superheroes I'm interested in the most are the ones who don't abide by that whole law and order thing. They can be assholes as they save the world and they don't give a daisies. It's why I like RDJ as Ironman so much, even when he's ripping on his own teammates.

I also like it when superhero doesn't even occur to the character. They're a normal person with powers and they get to decide what that means. Will they do good for the sake of good? Hire themselves out? Indulge in their desires? Use it to advance their ideals in a might makes right scenario? Or just completely snap and start wasting everything? I liked reading Freakangels because it had a lot of that, at least until it was revealed they were immortal whereupon my interest plummeted like Bush's approval rating.

[[Insert Fail]]

If you want a superhero that doesn't abide by law and order, The Punisher is the most extreme example I can remember. Epitome of chaotic good. I'm not nearly as well-versed in the superhero genre to think of any that address the latter part of your post.

[BurntToShreds]

Man what, that's not nearly as interesting.

How is being an actual deity less interesting than being an alien?

Also, Jonah Hex from All-Star Western just says "Fuck it" to the rules a whole lot.

You should really give non-superhero comics a try. They're pretty good. TMNT has a new comic series that has one of the co-creators of the original series on board, and it's not "They're aliens" shite like Michael Bay is doing.

[DoNotDelete]

I think Spawn was also an antihero in his original conception but I never really followed that series too closely.

[[Insert Fail]]

How is being an actual deity less interesting than being an alien?

I liked the idea of "our magic is just science (but we're better than you so it's more advanced)". Science is neat. Now you could go around not having to explain anything beyond "eh, he's a god". I also enjoyed the idea of a bunch of aliens discovering earth and deciding to prank Vikings day after day.

I know the "magic is science" could still have unexplainable scenarios but I just like science B.S. over magic B.S.

[DoNotDelete]

If you want a superhero that doesn't abide by law and order, The Punisher is the most extreme example I can remember. Epitome of chaotic good. I'm not nearly as well-versed in the superhero genre to think of any that address the latter part of your post.

I think Spawn was also an antihero in his original conception but I never really followed that series too closely.

After a memory jolt - I also recall that DC's H.E.R.O. run of comic shorts also dealt with some 'immoral' heroes.

Edit: It was DC, not Marvel, my bad (I changed it).

[Madican]

Oh, there was one series I really enjoyed called Empowered. Not sure if it's being continued though, since the last one I read was when a really powerful necromancer who enslaved dead heroes got wiped out. The world setting was a nice twist on established conventions, like what happens to heroes who make deals for their powers and then die.

Also when you have a character named Mindfuck and it's NOT played for comedy then it's pretty good.

[Kamak]

How is being an actual deity less interesting than being an alien?

I liked the idea of "our magic is just science (but we're better than you so it's more advanced)". Science is neat. Now you could go around not having to explain anything beyond "eh, he's a god". I also enjoyed the idea of a bunch of aliens discovering earth and deciding to prank Vikings day after day.

I know the "magic is science" could still have unexplainable scenarios but I just like science B.S. over magic B.S.

Eh, it really depends on the scenario and how it's handled, but I don't generally enjoy it when something is set up as being "magical" and then retconed into "This is all explainable by science."

The worst case of this was in Bionicle, where the universe was a giant robot and the only reason the characters had emotions and consciousness was because of an electronic glitch in their programming. Which happened to every single one of them. Even though they weren't networked together.

And meanwhile the characters are robotic humanoids that can absorb and expel elemental energy, which was revealed to have a "scientific process" that was never explained beyond that. They took a series that was basically "robots with magical powers" into "We're trying to be as convoluted and retcon-pop flyin' as DC and marvel"

[BurntToShreds]

My opinion is just that "THEY'RE ALIENS" is used too much as a cop-out in certain places. It just gets old. I would have loved to see them make the Marvel Film's Thor and the rest of the Asgardians actual gods, and there were heroes in Valhalla and everything, including Philip Coulson

[Terraem]

Not all of them. Miles Morales in Ultimate Spider-Man is scrawny as hell, and so is Peter Parker in regular Amazing Spider-Man, Wolverine is hairy and overall ugly.
Gwen Stacy, Uncle Ben, Howard Stark, Jean Grey, and Professor Xavier (I think) are all dead. The fact that Doc Ock is dying is part of the current spidey story arc, and Deadpool has lost his healing factor and can get killed at any time. Peter Parker in the Ultimate Universe (Where Miles Morales is now Spidey) is dead and is shown to be Dining in Valhalla with Wolverine and cyclops

Wolverine is described as ugly, but he still gets a lot of tail and has dated, or had sex with, quite a large number of women. He's ugly in the same way that girls in big movies are ugly, except they're really not.
Gwen Stacy came back once (cloned) for a long time, Jean Gray came back at least three times, Professor Xavier died but came back. Dock Ock was actually already killed once by Kaine, but they just sort of forgot about that I think. Never read anywhere why he was suddenly back.
Deadpool can't stay dead because Thanos cursed him to always come back, unless they retconned that as well.

If you're interested in good comics, you'll mostly have to look outside of most Marvel and DC ones, in my opinion. I think a large part of the problem is the fact that comics tend to change writers every few issues, who have a entirely different take on the characters. So do the artists for that matter. Does anyone remember when Ultimate Wasp was asian?
I really enjoy Hellboy and really need to read more of it. Invincible is probably the only superhero comic out there that I still enjoy (immensely) because it's has good continuity, an interesting story and characters, has kept the same writer/artist since the beginning and has not made any retcons in all the 90 issues so far.

And you could of course always try some European comics. It's a whole different market.

[D-vid]

I like that Europe has Donald Duck comic books.
I should buy the Lustige Taschenbuch some time again.

[Terraem]

Germans gave me Jim Button. That makes them okay in my book.

How about this redesign?