AWKWARD ZOMBIE

But I haven't transferred yet. <_>
Waiting on doing stuff for my paypal account for transfer, also I am on the legendary questline so I'll have to wait a bit...

Wiped on LFR Madness at least 6 times across two characters. Always on Kalecgos' platform.

I just want some new weapons. Is that so much to ask?

I actually find Madness to be the easiest fight if everyone knows what they're doing.
Hardest fights for me are lootship & spine.

I spend WAAAAAAAAY too much time calculating what all would be needed to make rogue tanks work. (it really can with enough tweaking!)

I know I know, "Vrom rouge R not tank GTFO noob" but there are 2 problems in WoW (okay granted there are thousands of problems needing to be fixed) and those 2 problems can easily be solved with 1 solution.
WoW needs more tanks, and rogues are getting shafted for other "superior" classes such as mage & shaman because bloodlust-heroism/timewarp or shaman/druid/shadow priest/ret paladin for emergency heals. Oh and ranged DPS BECAUSE WHO PLAYS THOSE LOSER MELEE CLASSES?
Oooh and warriors over rogues BECUZ DEY R SUPEREUR MEELE DEEPS DAT CNA TANK!

I'll only go into a lengthy post if people do not mind/ask/do not bitch at me much.

Rogues are shankers. About 60% of all my pvp related deaths are caused by rogues alone. 8===D

I also remember getting a rogue 30 levekls above me killed though. He kept sappin me in Gadgetzan, and I managed to get out my voidwalker and make him eat shadows, which revealed the bastard. He wtn huh? and the Bruisers came in and messed him up as he ran out of town XD

Actually that was awesome but othern that, rogues have shanked me everytime.

Rule 1 of a PvP server: there are always rogues wherever you go. ALWAYS. No exceptions.
Rule 4 of surviving in a battleground: always use any small pulse AoE spell you have when moving to pull any rogues out of stealth.

And as a general rule of rogue pvp: all PvP rogues are always assassination or subtlety, because combat sucks balls in any PvP scenario.


I've learned to just ignore all rogue hate from people who pvp or are on pvp servers, because I am not one of them.

Vrominelli wrote: And as a general rule of rogue pvp: all PvP rogues are always assassination or subtlety, because combat sucks balls in any PvP scenario.

From what I saw my brother made Combat work but I just asked him and he said it was because he was overgeared for the bracket.

Vrominelli wrote: I'll only go into a lengthy post if people do not mind/ask/do not bitch at me much.

Do it. I know I've discussed some things with you but I wanna see it all laid out.

yes do it! i would also like to see it. it might give me a reason to be a rogue. also i cant really connect with you about the guild...im on starter edition. -_-

Vyndren wrote:it might give me a reason to be a rogue

Well keep in mind this is just speculation, and I'm almost definitely sure Blizzard isn't ever going to make rogues able to tank. But god dammit they're trying

Hint: Look at the ability rogues get.

Okay then.
So, while being at max level during wrath I wanted to solo a shit ton of content so I made my specs be combat raiding and combat solo tank hybrid by grabbing all kinds of sweet talents and abilities.
Here's an old talent tree I found, but it can't seem to recognize the "required talent" system.

Assassination:

• Deadened Nerves used to grant 9% damage reduction from all sources, now grants 10% in cataclysm
  Pre shattering patch: Quick Recovery (20% extra healing from heals & refunds 80% energy if a finisher fails to hit) Post shattering patch: Quickening (healing part is the same, increase movement speed by 15%)

Combat:

• Riposte as a counterattack/CP generator for when I parry an attack (you parry more often than you think)
  Unfair Advantage for counterattacks when dodging
  Lightning Reflexes; this talent has changed in cata, old numbers were 6% dodge and 10% haste, new numbers are 9% dodge and 6% haste
  Endurance was a nice talent in wrath that is now completely gone, it granted a 30 second reduction to the CD of evasion & sprint for each talent point, giving a total of 60 seconds shaved off the timers, AND it gave a bonus of 2% extra stamina for each talent point

Subtlety:

• Ghostly Strike as one of the spells to use to keep granting me extra dodge chance and giving me combo points (all kinds of needed for this to work)
  Shadowstep since this is the rogue's version of a warrior's charge, extra mobility is always a nice thing to have as a tank
  Setup for combo point generation when dodging (just so completely OP as a talent, and works too well with unfair advantage)
  Cheat Death; best survival talent to invest in as a rogue. Downside: quite far down the tree...
  Enveloping Shadows, because AoE stuff happens all the time, and it increases the AoE damage reduction of Feint as a bonus!
  Sleight of Hand just for the reduced crit chance on me. Downside: increased threat reduction of Feint...
  Elusiveness for the reduced Cloak of Shadows CD, it's actually better in cataclysm

Unfortunately what I always saw was that the best stuff for tanking were too far down both the subtlety & assassination trees and knew I could never get both, so that's when I really first started thinking that blizz should make just one of the rogue's 3 pure DPS specs a tank class with tanking talents. *cough* combat *cough*
With time I eventually saw new things come in Cataclysm that would GREATLY help with my tanking, but at the same time I saw many core rogue tank things removed (Setup & UA so I can't dodge counter, and even Riposte & GS) and even more bad changes along the way, like Cloak of Shadows having the cooldown increased to 2 minutes and sharing a CD with a new ability...

New tank things:

• Combat Readiness; this spell was a godsend, it made you take 10% less damage every time you were attacked and stacked up to 5 times for the duration of the ability! Later had cooldown shared with Cloak of Shadows...
  Recuperate; a finisher that gives us a non-dispellable health percentage scaling HoT?! HELL FUCKING YES PLEASE!
  Redirect; just one amazing CP utility spell for all situations. (the CD sucks though)
  Deadly Momentum because for killing dungeon trash, or just for leveling up, nothing is more annoying than trying to keep up both recuperate AND slice-and-dice for the next kill after each kill.
  Improved Recuperate; this and recuperate have been changed quite a bit since release, originally it was 3% for recup & +2% for the talent, now it's a +1%. Still grants 6% damage reduction for when recup is up.
  Energetic Recovery (Sub only 3rd tier talent) grants energy recovery for recuperate! So awesome! So OP!
  Reinforced Leather; a 2 point talent that gives 25% extra armor for each point? Niiiiiiiice.
  Glyph of CoS; physical damage reduced by 40%. Very Nice.
  
  MoP: Leeching Poison; Now that's a nice little poison right there, nice to have something that gives you a heal at the cost of extra damage.

The thing is, even if a rogue had all these sweet things they'd STILL need lots of things done for them.

• A taunt spell, because every tank has one. (druid symbiosis for rogues gives us a taunt that grants crazy armor, strangely) Edit: Sol beat me to it.
  
  A super threat generator like righteous fury that grants an increase to threat from Fan of Knives so we'd have AoE threat. Maybe have some talent that changes Blade Flurry into that?
  Rogues actually cause more threat than any other class, read here, so naturally we'd need some modifier that get us back up to 1-to-1 for threat.
  
  A defensive finisher spell. Rogues have never had one, and the closest there is for us is this finisher spell used in the Malygos fight for on the drakes. (it'd need quite a bit of tweaking, BUT IT COULD WORK!)
  
  CoS & CR should have their own separate cooldowns instead of a shared one.
  
  Some kind of glyph or something that turns Tricks of the Trade into a threat vacuum instead of a threat dumper. (this is one of the big things needed for making this all work)
  
  ANOTHER defensive ability. Probably a crappy one with a shorter CD... Or maybe just something that grants the rogue extra damage reduction for when we pop threat vacuum TotT at the cost of extra 15% damage output of the tricked person?
  
  Bonus Stamina; this is a must for ANY tank, so we need something that grants bonus armor. Maybe even a special "increased health for X seconds" spell like Vapiric Blood?
  
  DPS-to-tank stat balancing? Having a rogue as a tank would probably have pretty high DPS and shame quite a few people with lower damage (not like tanks already do that anyway), so maybe some base attack power reduction with attack power uppers for the other 2 specs would be in order? Or maybe just have it so agility for rogues grants less attack power and being a DPS gives a passive ability that grants extra, bringing them back to what they are now?
  Also, back in wrath the agility stat granted attack power, crit chance, dodge chance, and ARMOR. So for now if rogues wanted to tank they'd need some special thing that grants extra armor for each point of agility.
  
  So maybe... agility grants not as much AP initially, and if DPS specced then it gives what it currently gives; and if tank it grants the armor it used to like back in wrath? Seems right to me...

Yell at me if I missed anything, and I need to play my Blood DK and Protection Paladin more before adding more junk to the pile...
Edit: Back in wrath I always had my tanking spec be something like this:
Mostly Assassination
Assless stealther
"Doug Dodgers" (almost exactly what I had before cata came out)

Aye, I had the same ideas. And apparently at one point Rogues could indeed tank.


Anyway, I'm gonna post my version of the Roguetank build in the Gamestorming General thread.

I met someone IRL who has his own private server (wrath, pre shattering, all the good old stuff without all the new good stuff) and he has allowed me to dick around on there and calculate what all I'd need, and then I walked into ICC and got myself killed and now I can't enter ICC to revive because you need to be in a raid group or alive and a GM to enter. (he doesn't have people on there, just him accessing it)

So I'm going to have to start from scratch for when I see him next.


Now if only I could find some other private server that is cataclysm based... then I could REALLY do more research for what would be needed...

I played Molten WoW for a bit, but it's still buggy as hell despite being the best Cata private server.

I use Divinity-X, it's an all-GM server (commands are restricted because noobishness) but the catch is that it's 4.0.3 based.