Super Smash Bros.: The one with Ridley in it

[Kamak]

Sakurai mused about taking away the item switch or making it unlockable working on brawl.

Competitive wasn't very pleased by that. I remember smash boards starting a petition about it.

Whether they actually got through to the devs or not, the switch was left in. If it wasn't the game would be items always on, like I believe ssb64 was.

Going back to an earlier point about competitive players playing for cheddar, if anyone legit considers prize cheddar to be "theirs" before the competition is over and that it got taken away when they lost... That is beyond arrogant. That is perhaps the worst mentality to have in any competitive situation and assumes that "had it not been for [the thing you're blaming]" you would outclass any other competitor in the competition. This attitude sometimes pervades card games, and it's insanely frustrating to deal with someone who blames bad luck or poor choices on the game itself, organizers, their opponent, or anything else. They deserve and are owed nothing until they win it, even if they are the most skilled or the "shoo in" to win.

The thing is, I kinda wish there was a decently sized competitive community for ssb surrounded by the "risk vs. reward" style of play afforded by character choice and either all items or select items. This is the competitive I prefer, and it's kinda sad to not see tier or "what items/strategies to use with x character" discussions because it's often lumped as casual or too random.

I like my brawl to be like my card games. I don't mind the competitive side, but I feel there's a missed opportunity.

[YCobb]

I agree that it's bad to act like prize cheddar is yours and gets taken away, but I still think it's okay to be upset with extenuating circumstances.

If a bob-omb happens to materialize right in front of your attack and you die, you're still losing your chance to compete. It'd be kind of like if a tournament randomly chose five players to boot out before the matches even start. Sure, those people weren't guaranteed to win, but now they definitely won't and it's not necessarily their fault.

[TerraChimaera]

jesus dick what the fuck just happened to this thread

is super smash bros. just one of those games like pokemon or animal crossing where there are so many statistics to keep track of that it just isn't a game anymore

[Nap1000]

Not to the same effect since it's not so much math as it is knowledge in what to do in quick situations.

if you wanted a serious answer

[impmon08]

jesus dick what the fuck just happened to this thread

is super smash bros. just one of those games like pokemon or animal crossing where there are so many statistics to keep track of that it just isn't a game anymore

Not if you don't make it into one. I never even touch IV's or EV's or whatever all that stuff is when I play pokemon I just catch things I think are cool and use them if I think they'll be good in battle, and I didn't even know Animal Crossing had crazy statistics (to be fair I've only ever played maybe an hour of the original and New Leaf.) I think that's something I like about nintendo games in a way, they have complex systems like this but they aren't important if you don't want them to be.

[Kamak]

I think the only real math in ssb is damage output ranges, counting frames of the attack animation, and geometry of hit boxes.

And maybe like the exact shape of final destination because getting stuck under that fucking ledge.

[Galaxy Man]

I really don't like items in SSB because of how random they make things. I like feeling like I have complete control over what I do. If I win, I want it to feel like I won, and not the random box that just spawned that happened to explode.

[impmon08]

Random makes good fun. Card games without shuffled decks would be atrociously boring. Smash Bros. wasn't made to be a "competitive" game so much as a "fun" one, so I think randomization is good for it.

[Galaxy Man]

Except I don't have fun with random things. I would assume a lot of other people don't either.

It's not being competitive, and trying to win everything, it's having fun. You seem to think it's either random fun or competitive mathematics, but hey turns out some people don't like it when complete bullshit happens.

[impmon08]

Which is why they added the ability to turn them off.

[Galaxy Man]

yes but you're acting like it's a switch between fun and not fun

[Kamak]

And some people want to be competitive with items. But because of the way competitive is done in ssb, it's harder to get real discussion or strategy going without the "casuals" or the no item competitives smothering it out.

Pokemon even has two competitive sections. Official tournaments are lenient and don't care about evasion, tiers, and other issues with the meta game, and you have Smogon and online communities to balance the random and keep Pokemon separated into tiers to allow different levels of play. Even if you don't like one of them, there's another option.

SSB doesn't have a second option, at least not in an organized or legitimate form.

[Shad]

There are things to consider like the developer's dislike of the competitive community and their no-items approach though.

This article and you are misquoting him, nowhere in that article does he say that he dislikes the competitive community or that competitive matches aren't interesting or fun.

The thing is, I kinda wish there was a decently sized competitive community for ssb surrounded by the "risk vs. reward" style of play afforded by character choice and either all items or select items. This is the competitive I prefer, and it's kinda sad to not see tier or "what items/strategies to use with x character" discussions because it's often lumped as casual or too random.

And some people want to be competitive with items. But because of the way competitive is done in ssb, it's harder to get real discussion or strategy going without the "casuals" or the no item competitives smothering it out.

SSB doesn't have a second option, at least not in an organized or legitimate form.

That's the thing, not many people are interested in that. It has nothing to do with it being considered casual, it has to do with few people wanting to talk about it. I know for a fact that there are communities centred around competitive play with items on, and I also know that they represent a very small portion of people interested in competitive Smash Bros. Few of these people would go to events organized with items-on rules, and even fewer would organize these events.

[Barabba]

Wouldn't it be super neato if NiGHTS was in Smash?

[Liraxus]

That seems unlikely since NiGHTS was only really popular when the Saturn was at least acknowledged in the US, maybe as a Cameo or assist if SEGA is down for it?

On another note, I always wanted to start a small casual tournament in Brawl, but I didn't really get the chance as a kid since no one was interested.