Super Smash Bros.: The one with Ridley in it

[Kamak]

adults that act like the game is mature or "for them" primarily.

The point is that the game is for kids.

And competitive players.

And whoever wants to play it.

And getting mad at someone for saying kids play it is like getting mad at a kid for playing it.

Kids are playing ssb. I watched 3 kids play it today. Does not mean they're the only ones playing. And that's all that matters.

[Madican]

I never said I got mad at someone for that, I just think they're an idiot because kids are not the only ones who play it and they were stating that as if it were fact.

Seriously, you are reading way too deeply into posts today Kamak. You're seeing things to argue about that don't exist.

[Omnithea]

I'd like a training exercise that tests your dodging and rolling. Get through a Donkey Kong style level with lots of hazards and rolling barrels. Points deducted for every barrel you break. Try to get through the stage without getting hit either, of course.

[Liraxus]

Link is slowly becoming my new main in Brawl/Melee.

You must like a challenge, Link is shit tier in Brawl and is only middle-tier in Melee.

Eh, I like racking up combo's with him, and I kinda hate the Gamecube controller.

My original main was Mr. Game and Watch and at another time, Toon Link, so really I think I'm more of a casual player than one who spends most of his time spamming grabs as Ice Climbers.

[Galaxy Man]

Game and Watch and Toon Link are mid-tier I think tho

although to note: tiers are shit because SSB really relies more on skill

[Syobon]

Individual skill has nothing to do with tier lists, because they assume both players are of equal skill.

[Galaxy Man]

so if both players are of equal skill, then the winner is based on character choice?

that sounds like some primo bullshit

[Syobon]

If both players are of exactly equal skill (which will never happen ever) and there are no other influencing factors (like one of them being a little under the wheather) (which will rarely ever happen) then yes character choice is the only variable left to determine the outcome of the battle.

Tier lists are theoretical, and they serve to determine advantages or disadvantages characters might have.

[Galaxy Man]

If two players are of exactly equal skill, then really wouldn't it be down to random luck, and not character choice?
Assuming equal skill means proficient with everyone, that is, because a tier list based on someone being shit at a character or two is just not a good idea.

also theoretical lists for people who can't ever possibly exist seems like a new level of useless, there's showing character weaknesses, and then there's ranking them based on standards that can't be met ever

[Syobon]

If two players are of exactly equal skill, then really wouldn't it be down to random luck, and not character choice?
Assuming equal skill means proficient with everyone, that is, because a tier list based on someone being shit at a character or two is just not a good idea.

In a perfectly balanced game yes, but Smash is far from perfectly balanced. The inherit advantages and disadvantages of the characters usually outweigh the effect of luck. Also "circumstances being the same" means both players are about as lucky as well. And equal skill actually does not imply someone has to be skilled with all characters because that's pretty irrelevant when they're playing only one (aside from knowing how all characters work).

also theoretical lists for people who can't ever possibly exist seems like a new level of useless, there's showing character weaknesses, and then there's ranking them based on standards that can't be met ever

You misunderstand, they're based upon the general level of play, not some standard that can't be met. I was saying it's impossible for two players to be exactly as skilled because they would have to be clones.

The usefulness of tier lists is something else, if you just want to play the game and have fun they don't really affect you, but people who want to play the game competitively want to know what advantages and disadvantages characters have over others. They're also useful when discussing game balance.

[Barabba]

Is Mario garbage tier? I think he might be garbage tier.

[luroberto]

I just hope I can still get by defying gravity as Pit.

[Liraxus]

Is Mario garbage tier? I think he might be garbage tier.

I see quite a few people using Mario in most competitive tournaments.

[Syobon]

This is the current smashboards tier list. As you can see it's more of a vague guideline than strictly set in stone.

Also another use for tiers I forgot to mention is to make tier-restricted tournaments, to force people to play lesser picked characters and shake things up a little.

[Shad]

My question is how did they not add this game in earlier?

The primary reason is because the Smash Bros community is vastly different from the "fighting game" community. Although Smash Bros is a fighting game, it's very different from other fighting games thus it appeals to a different audience. The ruleset is also very peculiar. EVO had Melee for one year (the tournament went alright), then Brawl for one year (they had rules that competitive players didn't like such has Items On). Because the Smash community didn't like how EVO decided the rules on their own instead of listening to feedback from the players, they agreed it wasn't worth it to add Smash Bros again.
SSBM was added this year as the Players' Choice game: players had to donate to the Breast Cancer Research Foundation in the name of the game they wanted to see at EVO, and SSBM won. The EVO staff said that they'd use a proper ruleset this time around.

Well to be fair, the people who make ssb don't think it's a fighting game.

Yeah, it's not really designed like other fighting games, but it's still a fighting game.

And just like people who actually take the pokemon metagame seriously, competitive Smash players are the certified worst people.

No, as usual in competitive gaming a lot of the "hate" or "worst people" come from spectators, rarely from actual competitors.

although to note: tiers are shit because SSB really relies more on skill

That's not how it works. All multiplayer games rely on skills, however all multiplayer games where you can pick your character, or weapon, have "tiers". It's not cookie-cutter "so-and-so are good and so-and-so are bad" lists.
A tier-list isn't created by just saying, "I think that character is shit, lemme put him in D tier". Tier-lists, especially Smash Bros tier-lists, are community efforts. They are created through discussion, analysis of matches, tournament results, gameplay experimentations, etc. They keep evolving along with the game, as the more you play, the more you discover. For instance, MetaKnight and Snake were considered as the two best characters in Brawl for a long time. Nowadays, Snake is ranked 6th, behind the Ice Climbers, Olimar, Diddy Kong and Marth.
A tier-list is here to say, "here's how we would rank the characters from strongest to weakest based on what we know, what we found out". The higher a character is in the tier-list, the stronger his tools are believed to be. That means that the number one character in a tier-list is "the character we think has the easiest time fighting against the other characters", and the last character in a tier-list is "the character we think has the hardest time fighting against the other characters".
This does not mean that a character ranked lower in the tier-list cannot win against characters ranked higher. Not only can a lower-ranked character have a "good match-up" against a higher-ranked character, but everybody knows that the key to winning a match is skill. More often than not, the most skilful player will emerge the winner.
However, character selection is very important still, and has an influence on how well you will do. Disregarding the fact that not everyone can play every character well, the higher-ranked characters in the tier-list give you a better shot at winning, because they are overall better than lower-ranked characters. It does not mean that picking higher-tier characters will make you win, because playing these characters well requires skill. Once again, skill is the most important factor in competitive play. Character pick is the second most important factor.

Do keep in mind that Smash Bros tier lists are based on 1 vs 1, No Items matches on tournament-allowed (aka "neutral") stages.

Useful links about tiers:
Controversy over the existence of tiers
Treatise on the Existence of Tiers