The Current Events Thread

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Lambeth
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Re: The Current Events Thread

Post by Lambeth »

Kamak wrote:I like that you assume I'm bringing personal reasons into this discussion, but let's keep that out of this.
Well Riku did, so I may have conflated the two of you
Kamak wrote:Also, didn't Steve Jobs multiply his paycheck by over, bodaciously, a million times what it was? Sounds really impressive, until you find out he was being paid a pittance to run Apple (though, admittedly, he wasn't exactly hurting for the cheddar at the time, but he wasn't big ball rich either) before he brought in the cheddar. Having context on what tripling means, and what his history of paychecks could be might be beneficial. Did he take a pay cut before this from past problems?
He was majority stockholder if I remember correctly but yeah he was being paid 1 dollar to be the head honcho. Not sure what this has to do with the hostess ceo. Also let me be clear about which guy I'm talking about. Brian Driscoll is the guy who increased the execs top pay by a buttload. The current guy, Greg Rayburn, actually cut the top 4 execs paycheck down to 1 dollar each. So good on him.
Kamak wrote:And also, assuming the CEO is a complete asshole, how does the CEO's dickery excuse the other side from any wrong doing?
I just don't see the wrongdoing committed by both sides as equal. Do you have any evidence of this union committing wrong doing or are you going to skewer them because other unions have done bad things?
Kamak wrote:and frankly, there WERE people willing to work those wages. Hostess had a good number of people break the strike, it just wasn't enough to save lost production. Now, those people, who wanted nothing to do with the Union got fucked out of their jobs. Because the union was fighting for them. Because the union knew what THEY wanted.

How is it fair to them? Why should they be written off just because they didn't side with the union?
I don't know quite how to answer this but I will say that those people wouldn't be that devoted to working for shit wages if the states had some goddamn real booty healthcare, rather than the shit private kerfuffle it has now.

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Re: The Current Events Thread

Post by Riku »

Obviously, it was irresponsible in Hostess' particular business situation, but what's wrong with a CEO getting a raise? They are running a huge-booty company. Most of them earn that massive paycheck through their current workload and their schooling/working their way up.


And I'm not necessarily defending corporations as a whole, just saying that in the U.S, the unions are far from knights in shining armor.

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Re: The Current Events Thread

Post by Lotharu »

Why don't all states let you opt-out of union dues? Indiana recently passed a legislation allowing that, but only 23 or so states allow you even the option to opt out, you're forced to be in them and put your paycheck to them.
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Re: The Current Events Thread

Post by Riku »

I think it's because if the unions were optional, (at least around here) they would suddenly lose %70 of their income/clients. And around here, Unions are just as guilty of that whole political lobbying thing as corporations are.

Also, I just realized what a large part of the problem in this thread might be. Is Lambeth from Canada? If so, that could be the source of the differing view on unions. They probably have entirely different behaviours between the two countries.

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Re: The Current Events Thread

Post by Lambeth »

RikuKyuutu wrote:Obviously, it was irresponsible in Hostess' particular business situation, but what's wrong with a CEO getting a raise? They are running a huge-booty company. Most of them earn that massive paycheck through their current workload and their schooling/working their way up.


And I'm not necessarily defending corporations as a whole, just saying that in the U.S, the unions are far from knights in shining armor.
I'm opposed to CEOs getting a raise when the company is going down the shitter.
RikuKyuutu wrote:I think it's because if the unions were optional, (at least around here) they would suddenly lose %70 of their income/clients. And around here, Unions are just as guilty of that whole political lobbying thing as corporations are.

Also, I just realized what a large part of the problem in this thread might be. Is Lambeth from Canada? If so, that could be the source of the differing view on unions. They probably have entirely different behaviours between the two countries.
I was born in the states and lived there for most of my life but I moved to canada recently. And corporations are worse with that whole political lobbying thing. Unions haven't been a driving force in american politics for years, at least not on the national, federal level.
Last edited by Lambeth on Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Current Events Thread

Post by Wry Bread »

The responsibilities of an organization's CEO (Chief Executive Officer, US) or MD (Managing Director, UK) are set by the organization's board of directors or other authority, depending on the organization's legal structure. They can be far-reaching or quite limited and are typically enshrined in a formal delegation of authority.
[*]Typical duties of boards of directors include:

governing the organization by establishing broad policies and objectives;
selecting, appointing, supporting and reviewing the performance of the chief executive;
ensuring the availability of adequate financial resources;
approving annual budgets;
accounting to the stakeholders for the organization's performance;
setting the salaries and compensation of company management.

Often, the board will meet annually or semi-annually to perform duties, especially in the case of large corporations, after which their responsibility with the company ends until the next meeting.
Typically, the CEO/MD has responsibilities as a communicator, decision maker, leader, manager and executor. The communicator role can involve the press and the rest of the outside world, as well as the organization's management and employees; the decision-making role involves high-level decisions about policy and strategy. As a leader, the CEO/MD advises the board of directors, motivates employees, and drives change within the organization. As a manager, the CEO/MD presides over the organization's day-to-day, month-to-month, and year-to-year operations.
CEOs do have a job; it's true that they don't do nothing. However, it's also true that although their decisions are numerous and important, within the infrastructure built by large corporations, it is arguably both less strenuous and less time consuming on average than many, if not all, other positions in the company, from the ground up.

I think the issue being argued here isn't "they shouldn't be paid" or "they shouldn't be paid well," but rather that it's unacceptable to make the argument "pay raises are bad because CEOs will often elect to fire large numbers of people rather than use company profits or merely refrain from paying themselves extra, and that is okay" with the implication being, "the CEO's extra profit on top of already substantial pay is more important than the ability of necessary workers to support themselves on pay that rarely or never improves no matter how difficult work is or how long they work." Many companies only offer raises after several years, to extremely select and limited numbers of employees, and when raises are offered, they're generally 10, 25 or 50 cent raises, at least in my area.

Corporations are not soulless, they are selfish; that's simply how they work. It is human nature not to be satisfied no matter how good life is or how much one already has, especially materially. If I made one million dollars last year, this year I feel I should make two, and because I have the ability to take that cheddar with little to no meaningful negative reaction, I will. CEOs and other business executives are not out to explicitly be "evil," but they also have very little pity, empathy or general understanding or care for the situation their workers are in, by virtue of their position in life and the socialization that goes with it. We are also often trained to think that no matter what, if you're getting less of something than you want, you're being "punished." If I got an extra piece of cake yesterday, but don't get one today, I will feel like I am being punished and retaliate, because now my circumstances seem lesser by comparison. Many politicians, executives and other people in positions of power feel extremely justified when they say that they feel low wage workers are deserving of poor status, or that it is immoral to disapprove of them taking extra cheddar in the form of unnecessary bonuses on top of enormous raises and high pay grade checks, while at the same time bitching that they don't have enough workers or that the economy is in ruins without jobs. That's just how it is. That's how humans work.

However, "that's just how it is" is absolutely not a logical, objective or acceptable excuse for allowing or working against attempts to counter situations like that, and often only makes the problem worse. One doesn't need to reward bad behavior to encourage it because bad behavior is only undertaken when there is an intrinsic reward anyway; just not punishing self-rewarding bad behavior is enough to encourage it, and in this case, the bad behavior is a deeply ingrained mental and social standpoint that harms and limits many rather than a specific action that harms a few.
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Re: The Current Events Thread

Post by [Insert Fail] »

Lambeth wrote:Just because a union kicked you in the balls once doesn't mean all unions are like that.
You could say the same for corporations. I've worked for several in my life, and two of them (the ones I didn't have to join a union for, funnily enough) actually offered me the best pay and benefits than any of my other jobs. Don't generalize one side and then give leeway to the other, that's just poor debating.
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Re: The Current Events Thread

Post by Lambeth »

Yeah I got a bit hyperbolic there, whoops.


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Re: The Current Events Thread

Post by Lambeth »

Oh good he isn't a dick then.

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Re: The Current Events Thread

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BE CAREFUL CLICKING THE FOLLOWING LINK, IT CONTAINS GRAPHIC VIOLENT IMAGES

A gay woman was nearly beaten to death last Thursday. Locals are calling for upgraded charges such as attempted murder against the assailant, the brother of the woman's girlfriend, but due to the way Alabama handles assault charges, he has only been charged with second-degree assault. Alabama also does not handle hate crimes in cases targeting sexual orientation, so federal law enforcement will have to get involved for the man to be charged with a hate crime.
The A in this case stands for Armageddon. As in, Armageddon a boner because this plane has a fucking HOWITZER sticking out of it.
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Re: The Current Events Thread

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That is really, really scary.
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Re: The Current Events Thread

Post by BurntToShreds »

The birth rate in the United States is down to a record low. What do you think about this? I think that this is a good thing. A lower birth rate means that issues stemming from overpopulation could be deterred for a longer period of time.
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Lambeth
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Re: The Current Events Thread

Post by Lambeth »

Clearly it means Children of Men is a prophecy.

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Re: The Current Events Thread

Post by Ersatz »

It also means a lot of problems in 30 years, when most of today's population will be retired/dead and there won't be enough younger people to fill all the new vacant jobs/pay for services.
My province has the world's second aging rate. After the baby-boom (10+ kids per family), there was a huge drop in the birth rate, and economists keep warning us about it. It might be less of a problem in the US since you rely less on the state and much more on private services. Half of my province's budget currently goes into health, and baby-boomers are only beginning to retire.
Last edited by Ersatz on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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