Taboo Topics (Heavily moderated)

[Wry Bread]

Hey, it's okay. That was more directed to Stranger than you, but I'm glad you've reflected on it a little? Everyone has times where they just can't afford to prioritize one person over another, and it can be really, really hard to deal with a friend who has constant problems. I know what you mean, and I've had experiences like it, too. If it's getting to a point where their feelings are becoming unmanageable and taking up most or all of your interaction with them, it may be time to try to explain to them that you do care about them a lot and of course you're pop flyin' to help, but that it would be a good idea for them to find other ways to cope in addition to speaking with you. You might also point out that while bottling emotions is a bad idea and can hurt a lot, venting every time there's a problem actually makes it harder to cope when an outlet isn't immediately available and lessens your ability to manage problems yourself because you fall out of practice. It's a really hard, delicate balance.

If you're spending hours trying to help someone whose problems don't appear to be impacted by it, and it's beginning to tell on you, that's not good. It's... really, really hard to tell someone that they need to find other coping mechanisms, such as taking time out to get a drink and asking whether the problem will still be hurting them tomorrow or if it's a right-now thing, but the alternative entails you hurting yourself.

[Vax]

Yeah I have seen examples of that same exact scenario many many times (as have most people I'm sure) and I personally think it's easy enough to tell when someone is fishing for pity or being an idiot and overblowing their problems by labeling themselves as depressed without understanding the consequences of doing tht for both themselves and those ACTUALLY suffering from legitimate depression, or any other type of disorder.

And of course there are much more difficult to gauge situations where it's hard to tell if someone is being serious, or exaggerating their mental state. In those cases, yeah, I think it is much better to air on the side of caution and give them the benefit of the doubt.

There really is an overwhelming problem these days of people's misconceptions about mental illness. It goes both ways in many cases; either there are people understating it's effects and casting suspicion and skepticism on the severity of the problems, or people using it almost as a scapegoat or excuse without realizing that they jeopardize not only their own legitimacy, but the legitimacy of others suffering from mental illness. There really needs to be a more open dialogue amongst people in general about the role that mental illness can play in the lives of everyone, even people not suffering from it. Many people definitely need to be educated more about it because it is so desperately important, and people are only now finding their voice in that regard.

and Angelic, in response to your questions about "How much is too much help?" and the like, it's a very tough distinction to make. Of course it is very important to support your friends if they are going through a hard time. People need support and compassion to get through things like depression and low self-esteem, especially in the young adult ages. It is good to communicate with friends suffering from such things and allowing them to vent their frustrations and worries with someone who cares and won't judge them too harshly. That being said, if you feel that your friend, or anyone, might be struggling with mental illness, it's best to suggest to them that they should seek counseling of some kind. There's only so much any layman can do for someone dealing with depression or any ailment of the mind. It can also be hard not to want to always be on said friends side and sugar coat things, but you really have to be able to tell people things like they are. Gentleness mixed with frankness is kind of key when helping people with problems like this, and it's good to know for yourself when you've hit a point where you can't help this person with everything. They cannot rely entirely on you for all their support, and sometimes you have to let yourself know that you come first in your own life. It's not selfishness, it's just the way it is sometimes.

All in all it's good to support your friends, but it's also good to know that you can't handle everything, and suggesting that friends try to get help for your problems works much better than attempting to coddle and reinforce destructive behavior, if such behavior is present.

[AngelicSongx]

Sigh, I've suggested that they go to a counselor at school, or even a therapist, but they claim that their problems would "make them go insane".

And I understand completely about the misconceptions of mental illnesses, Vax. I used to have a friend that would use his ADD or ADHD as an excuse a lot. Even throwing their pills away right infront of me just to prove some sort of point that they could be better without them. I also like what you said about how I should come first in my life. I don't really do that, I think.

I think I have a better idea about a middle ground I should have with helping my friend, thanks you guys.

[Riku]

Sigh, I've suggested that they go to a counselor at school, or even a therapist, but they claim that their problems would "make them go insane".

Now, I don't know your friends, nor do I intend to claim any proficient knowledge/experience in psychology and disorders, but that part right there just screams "Fifteen Year Old Special Snowflake" to me. I recognize that this might conflict with what Vax and Wry were trying to get across, but honestly, if they won't take your advice for a therapist or even a school counselor, then logically, one of two things is going on:

1: It's an act and they don't want to get called out because then that would cut off the attention that they crave.
2: They legitimately don't have the confidence to talk to someone they don't know, in which case you really aren't qualified to help them beyond a hug and just, "It'll get better. Let's go hang out and do something." If that's the case and you are legitimately worried about them, maybe talk to their parents? It's a good way to notify someone who actually sees them enough to observe that sort of thing, but can actually exercise authority over them. (If you're concerned about the friend feeling like you "tattled" on them, then this is also a good person to tell, because parents are always gettin' all up in their teenagers' business anyway.)

[Reyo]

I have to agree with riku. If they're really saying that their psychological problems would drive someone specifically trained to deal with psychological problems "insane", then it sounds more like they don't really want to be helped with their issues.

Especially when that psychological problem is "depression", aka the most common psychological problem in any given first world country.

EDIT: actually, there is a way to test this. The next time your friend brings it up, try comforting them by saying something along the lines of "this is a common problem that you can get help with relatively easily". Any normal person with the problem will be comforted by it because it'll tell them that they're not abnormal for having it. If it angers them, then it's most likely just "15 year old special snowflake syndrome".

[Kamak]

Unfortunately, a lot of people are uncomfortable with professional counseling, ranging from "this is someone I don't know that thinks they know me" to "what if they say I have no problem? Why can't I be like other people then?". Usually these fears are unfounded, but they're deep-rooted.

Also, keep in mind, this perception of mental health is often perpetrated by parental figures, who think this is for people who are "really crazy". Unfortunately, a lot of people hit an unmovable wall when it comes to trying to get professional help because their parents are skeptical, or worse, outright deny a problem even if it's obvious because they don't want a "crazy" in the family.

Society has a lot of growing up to do in this aspect.

[Reyo]

Clinical psychologists are also a bit more mindful than that. They're trained where "no problem" isn't the answer (otherwise they wouldn't be there) and keeping the diagnoses from being the identifying, crippling thing. If someone is just slightly sad, then it's neither that they "have no problem" nor "are depressed", it's that they have slight depression. It prevents labeling, which is where people get that "I'm crazy" feeling from while proving a diagnoses, which prevents the issues with "you don't actually have a problem, get out".

I understand that it's the perception of everyone outside of psychology that's doing it, but it's purely that.

EDIT: the main problem, though, is that the only way society will be able to "grow up" is when they just up and go to a psychologist to realize that it isn't the 60s anymore, where just going to a psychologist risked becoming a part of some LSD experiment.

[Riku]

Unfortunately, a lot of people are uncomfortable with professional counseling, ranging from "this is someone I don't know that thinks they know me" to "what if they say I have no problem? Why can't I be like other people then?". Usually these fears are unfounded, but they're deep-rooted.

Also, keep in mind, this perception of mental health is often perpetrated by parental figures, who think this is for people who are "really crazy". Unfortunately, a lot of people hit an unmovable wall when it comes to trying to get professional help because their parents are skeptical, or worse, outright deny a problem even if it's obvious because they don't want a "crazy" in the family.

Society has a lot of growing up to do in this aspect.

Your family might be different, but I'm pretty sure that most people don't consider depression to be crazy. Extreme manic-depressive disorder, sure. But depression on its own, not so much.

[Madican]

He's not saying people view those with depression as being crazy, but that people think those who go to psychiatrists must have something wrong with them.

[Reyo]

Psychietry is also a different bit than psychology. People go to a psychologist because there's something not quite right, and are then referred to psychiatrists if it turns out that something is serious. People just need to learn that psychologists are simply individuals with a little more knowledge of how the human mind functions and not people looking to label people as "crazy".

[Madican]

Huh. I never went to a psychologist. Just straight to a psychiatrist and sometimes a therapist. Didn't even know clinical psychologists were a thing.

[Reyo]

Well it's traditionally how it's "supposed" to work though you can end up going to a psychiatrist through court mandating, via doctor's orders ,or from just going from free will.

And clinical psychologists are just psychologists, as in the guys who sit in a chair and ask "and how does that make you feel?" when you tell them about your mother. If you go to any university and ask for the psychology department, chances are most of the professors will be clinical psychologists.

[Kamak]

Unfortunately, a lot of people are uncomfortable with professional counseling, ranging from "this is someone I don't know that thinks they know me" to "what if they say I have no problem? Why can't I be like other people then?". Usually these fears are unfounded, but they're deep-rooted.

Also, keep in mind, this perception of mental health is often perpetrated by parental figures, who think this is for people who are "really crazy". Unfortunately, a lot of people hit an unmovable wall when it comes to trying to get professional help because their parents are skeptical, or worse, outright deny a problem even if it's obvious because they don't want a "crazy" in the family.

Society has a lot of growing up to do in this aspect.

Your family might be different, but I'm pretty sure that most people don't consider depression to be crazy. Extreme manic-depressive disorder, sure. But depression on its own, not so much.

My family is actually kinda open about that stuff. My mom works with special needs kids so she knows how important treatment is.

She'd be more apt to kick my booty if I didn't tell her I wanted to see a psychiatrist.

But a lot of people I see think you only go to a psychiatrist when you're a "lost cause". Those people that have to be taken out in a strait jacket as they're screaming and crying, and who belong in a padded cell. But there's a whole spectrum of issues that getting professional help is necessary to function better, even if it's a "small tune-up" in a sense.

To them though, going to a psychiatrist is tantamount to admitting you belong in an asylum. People just didn't do it, and the people who did had major problems back in the day.

It's kinda like the abortion/birth control shock that some people go through, where the concept of being so blasé about going to a psychiatrist or psychologist is unsettling.

[Reyo]

Those same people are extremely misguided when it comes to psychological care. Besides, the issue was that the psychologist would "go insane" by hearing his friend's problems with depression, which is just a silly assumption to make. What would most likely the happen, if it really were depression, is the psychologist would establish why they feel depressed, and then the two of them would undergo cognitive therapy to change his perception on those things. There would be no loony bin for either of them.

[AngelicSongx]

Yeah, I think I'll try and get him to get help. Riku, I agree with you. I honestly think he was being a drama queen when he said that. I don't know if I'd be able to tell his parents. Mostly because he lives on the other side of town. I don't know how they'd react to this too. But, what if he doesn't want the help?